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champstar
27-06-2012, 14:34
I currently have michelin xc camping tyres on the van but have noticed the rear ones are showing some cracking on the side walls. I am off to europe soon and want to replace these 2 rear ones but which is best agilis or vancos and can I run with these on the back and xc's on the front?

clarkpeacock
27-06-2012, 14:43
I currently have michelin xc camping tyres on the van but have noticed the rear ones are showing some cracking on the side walls. I am off to europe soon and want to replace these 2 rear ones but which is best agilis or vancos and can I run with these on the back and xc's on the front?

I changed the XC camping tyres on the front of my Fiat Ducato based van last year for Agilis Camping. All seems fine and they are noticeably quieter. Only done a couple of thousand miles so far but no sign of any wear. Rears are still the original XC camping at 10 years old and 45K miles now. No sign of wear yet but will be changing to Agilis soon due to age. 4 x 185. Ouch!

maingate
27-06-2012, 15:02
The Agilis are far superior for grip on grass and mud. They are M & S rated so I would put them on the front and swop the XC to the back.

Northerner
27-06-2012, 15:14
The recommendation of all the major tyre manufacturers and motoring organisations is that the best tyres should go on the back, irrespective of the driving wheels. This may seem contrary to what most people have thought for some years but there is a wealth of evidence and advice on the web. Simply Google 'New tyres, front or rear' or words to that effect.

You will also find videos showing the dangers of having better tyres on the front than on the rear.

Smaug
27-06-2012, 16:14
The recommendation of all the major tyre manufacturers and motoring organisations is that the best tyres should go on the back, irrespective of the driving wheels. This may seem contrary to what most people have thought for some years but there is a wealth of evidence and advice on the web. Simply Google 'New tyres, front or rear' or words to that effect.

You will also find videos showing the dangers of having better tyres on the front than on the rear.

Hmm, with a front wheel drive van I can see the risk of the back end breaking away if you lift off the gas or brake halfway round a corner, but I would guess that's more the way mini drivers behave rather than us?

I mean fast cornering with a 3,500Kg motorhome full of water, food, booze, pots & pans - not to mention passengers & animals? I don't really think so - does anyone on here drive their van like a loony BMW driver?

Northerner
27-06-2012, 16:20
Hmm, with a front wheel drive van I can see the risk of the back end breaking away if you lift off the gas or brake halfway round a corner, but I would guess that's more the way mini drivers behave rather than us?

I mean fast cornering with a 3,500Kg motorhome full of water, food, booze, pots & pans - not to mention passengers & animals? I don't really think so - does anyone on here drive their van like a loony BMW driver?

All I'm doing is highlighting the advice from all the experts. And as I said, there is ample evidence on the web for anyone who is happy to have their perceptions challenged. As you say, the danger is often when descending on a slippery road and braking on a bend and suddenly seeing your back end coming round to the front. A rear end skid is much more hard to control than a front end one.

bevo
27-06-2012, 18:12
try the continental vanco 8 ply tyres, they came out top on a survey of tyres miles better than michelin xc.

a lot cheaper too

maingate
27-06-2012, 18:47
try the continental vanco 8 ply tyres, they came out top on a survey of tyres miles better than michelin xc.

a lot cheaper too

Hi bevo,

Michelin XC are consigned to history.

Gone but not missed as their lack of grip off road was legendary.

The new Agilis are a much better tyre.

Not cheap though. :sad:

channa
27-06-2012, 19:39
try the continental vanco 8 ply tyres, they came out top on a survey of tyres miles better than michelin xc.

a lot cheaper too

I can believe that, drove a fully loaded sprinter for a few days on vancos in awful weather..

I thought they were ok, no surprises
Channa

tiderus
27-06-2012, 20:28
I recently bought two tyres for my tag M/H. They were both high spec comercial tyres.

My local garage refused to fit them saying, they had to be XC camping tyres as they were reinforced to take the extra weight of the M/H.

Aparently they have reinforced walls.

He went then to show me six he had just changed after a year, with side wall cracks in all of them'

and these wern't the first he'd found, more round the back.

He said he had checked with the manufactures and adament that he was right.

Also there is the question of insurance cover, as not per manufactures spec?

So be careful and check, just to make sure.

These details are the first thing the assesor checks after an accident.

This week I went again with two tyres off ebay to be fitted to the car.

The load and weight figures 98v, did not match the cars original ones.

They were in excess one by load, and the other by the speed rating.

He said they were illegal and couldn't be fitted as all tyres had to be the same on both axels, for the Mot.

maingate
27-06-2012, 20:37
Your local garage was right if you were putting them on the front. :scared:

Michelin Agilis are rated at 111/113 and are borderline on my Burstner tag. When I sorted out a spare rim and tyre, the local tyre shop owner told me that I should be very careful not to overload the front axle. I had it on a weighbridge later and he was spot on. Nowadays, I carry virtually no water if I have a full fuel tank as I will be over the limit. This is due to the forward placing of fuel tank, fresh water tank, waste water tank and gas bottles. I have 4 belted seats just behind the cab area and there is no way on earth that my van could ever be road legal if I carried passengers. I have even put the Whippets on a diet. :p

BTW, the tyre I got as a spare was a Mohawk, rated at 112/114 (and about half the price of an Agilis).

Firefox
27-06-2012, 21:54
I'm pleased to see the whippets are on a diet, you can't spoil them too much ;D

I have to admit I don't know too much about tyres. I do check the tread and had the rears replaced about 6 months ago. It wasn't a total budget brand but one the tyre fitter recommended for my van. I think they were 110 each.

Anyway, they were inflated to about 60 psi which is what he recommended as most of the time my van drives around at about 2800/2900 out of 3300 kg. I checked the pressures a few weeks ago and was gobsmacked to see one was at 37 and the other at 45. These relatively new tyres don't seem to be capable of holding the pressure.

I wonder if this is normal for such new van tyres on high pressure as opposed to car tyres which run at about half that.

maingate
27-06-2012, 22:23
I'm pleased to see the whippets are on a diet, you can't spoil them too much ;D

I have to admit I don't know too much about tyres. I do check the tread and had the rears replaced about 6 months ago. It wasn't a total budget brand but one the tyre fitter recommended for my van. I think they were 110 each.

Anyway, they were inflated to about 60 psi which is what he recommended as most of the time my van drives around at about 2800/2900 out of 3300 kg. I checked the pressures a few weeks ago and was gobsmacked to see one was at 37 and the other at 45. These relatively new tyres don't seem to be capable of holding the pressure.

I wonder if this is normal for such new van tyres on high pressure as opposed to car tyres which run at about half that.

I would chuck some soapy water on the rims and valve as it seems a fairly big drop in a short time. The 16" Michelins on the van have not moved in nearly 3 years.

Years ago when this sort of thing happened, we just stuck an inner tube in. What I have done years ago was to pump a tyre up to well above the normal pressure and hunted potholes in the road (oh yes, we had them back then). The idea was that the sudden jolt and high tyre pressure improved the seal between tyre and rim. I have no evidence to support this theory but it worked for me.

champstar
02-07-2012, 16:57
thanks to everyone who has posted..I am still a bit unsure of what make of tyre to get put will probably bite the bullet and goe for the michelins...best price so far around 300 for 2 fitted but now back home after some time up at Benderloch..so will start phoning around soon

Byronic
02-07-2012, 18:36
Your local garage was right if you were putting them on the front. :scared:

Michelin Agilis are rated at 111/113 and are borderline on my Burstner tag. When I sorted out a spare rim and tyre, the local tyre shop owner told me that I should be very careful not to overload the front axle. I had it on a weighbridge later and he was spot on. Nowadays, I carry virtually no water if I have a full fuel tank as I will be over the limit. This is due to the forward placing of fuel tank, fresh water tank, waste water tank and gas bottles. I have 4 belted seats just behind the cab area and there is no way on earth that my van could ever be road legal if I carried passengers. I have even put the Whippets on a diet. :p

BTW, the tyre I got as a spare was a Mohawk, rated at 112/114 (and about half the price of an Agilis).

Is it the axle load you will exceed or the load rating of the tyres or do both limits coincide? I ask because I recollect that most tag axle vans have a 4600kg MAM with about a 1000kg payload, and Burstner are known as producing competant products. However if you even have to put the Whippets on a diet then I'll leave tag axles off my shortlist, if looking for a replacement.

fairytooth
02-07-2012, 19:04

maingate
02-07-2012, 19:16
Is it the axle load you will exceed or the load rating of the tyres or do both limits coincide? I ask because I recollect that most tag axle vans have a 4600kg MAM with about a 1000kg payload, and Burstner are known as producing competant products. However if you even have to put the Whippets on a diet then I'll leave tag axles off my shortlist, if looking for a replacement.

Most tag axles are between 4.5 and 5.0 ton MAM.

Mine is a Burstner 747 and its layout puts more than average weight on the front axle. Not all tags are the same, it depends where your fresh and waste water tanks plus gas bottles, batteries etc. are situated. My payload is around (1,000 Kg) but in normal trim, my 2 rear axles are well below the maximum.

It is normal for the axle weights to be: 2,000, 1,500 and 1,500 Kg but some of the A class Burstners are 2,100 Kg on the front axle.

I would not be put off by my earlier post and by the way, I am not starving the poor Whippets. They usually are on the rear fixed bed when travelling and offset the front axle weight (although one of them usually travels with his head stuck through the curtain and his chin resting on my shoulder).

Byronic
02-07-2012, 19:41
Yes axle load does of course depend heavily on the layout n(no pun intended), I was suggesting diplomatically that Burstner have got it it wrong viz. large van, 1 tonne payload and you have to travel without water and unoccupied seats etc. no personal offence intende but it doesn't appear to be fit for purpose? Those 111/113 LI tyres would certainly be close to the limit on the 2000Kg axle.

I wouldn't be surprised if you foregoed Greyhounds in favour of Whippets just to lose that extra 1Kg, but don't tell them!


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