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Admin
03-08-2012, 08:29
I am sorry if members do not like the way that things are going on this site but other than one member being banned and one light hearted off topic post nothing has really changed.

The rules of this site have not changed!

People who abuse other members will be banned.

I have asked the moderators not to warn people about off topic posts or thread hijacking as I do not want people to worry about what they post.
I have no wish to restrict the light hearted banter that makes this site fun to read.

Sparks
03-08-2012, 08:32
As far as I'm concerned the changes have been for the better.

John H
03-08-2012, 08:33
I have asked the moderators not to warn people about off topic posts or thread hijacking as I do not want people to worry about what they post.

Thanks - a good move which should take care of a number of concerns.

Funky Farmer
03-08-2012, 08:36
Whatever you do you won't please everybody Phil. Just keep chuggin'. You are doing ok by my book.

nij
03-08-2012, 08:44
You cant please 100% of the people 100% of the time mate.
You do what YOU think is right.

Personally, you have just brought the forum upto date with what others have been doing for years.

Bushtrekker
03-08-2012, 08:51
Phil puts a lot of time into running this site and the actions of a few individuals have caused concern over the past couple of months. This has turned it from a light hearted site which is friendly and informative into a forum where people wondered what would be posted next.

Phil has taken appropriate and proportional actions to curb this trend and I suggest we all support him in his efforts to bring the forum back on track. The newly appointed moderators are giving up their own time for no reward and are on a learning curve themselves. They may appear heavy handed at times, but once everything settles down I'm sure everyone will be happy that they are making reasonable decisions in the interests of the forum.

Sparks
03-08-2012, 09:00
I've already pointed out that the Wink smiley isn't clear enough and could cause misinterpretations. :D ;)

moonshadow
03-08-2012, 09:05
I, being a bit of a numpty when it comes to computer social communication, have not got a clue what most of the animated thingies mean, and it takes me ages to pick one out of the list so I don't use them much. And I struggle to understand why some of them have been used sometimes!

Bigpeetee
03-08-2012, 09:27
Sadly, rules are generally made as a result of a minority.

These are sensible actions that Phil has taken.

Many of us have said things in Jest, a bit of harmless banter and by the value of the posts by the moderators, I would imagine that they are just that, moderate.

Personally, I'm getting bored by the number of totally off topic subjects being brought onto the site, but I don't have to read them.

Good luck Phil with these changes, it reflects what the majority of members were feeling, I know I mentioned it to Phil before now,if people don't like them, they can go elsewhere.

Smaug
03-08-2012, 10:52
:scared:

Who was taken out & shot then?


Will I be next? :egg:



Seriously, Phill, no apologies needed, it's a good forum & that's down to the posters & you.

EDIT; OK so it was Northerner, no great surprise then, I'm just sad that someone so clearly intelligent & knowledgeable couldn't be more polite. So it goes.

Now, will we see some of those lurkers whose first post was to vote for banning people start posting about their adventures & interests? I hope so, but somehow doubt it.

snowbirds
03-08-2012, 11:03
Hi Phil,

I will park next to you at meet's and ride Shotgun.chill mate the site's great apart from others.

Regards Snowbirds.

I await brownie points:offtopic::cool1::cool1:








I am sorry if members do not like the way that things are going on this site but other than one member being banned and one light hearted off topic post nothing has really changed.

The rules of this site have not changed!

People who abuse other members will be banned.

I have asked the moderators not to warn people about off topic posts or thread hijacking as I do not want people to worry about what they post.
I have no wish to restrict the light hearted banter that makes this site fun to read.

scampa
03-08-2012, 12:25
OK so it was Northerner, no great surprise then, I'm just sad that someone so clearly intelligent & knowledgeable couldn't be more polite. So it goes.

So Northerner has now "Gone West"?? ......(apologies if that was in poor taste, but it had to be said).

Seriously though, there are no complaints from me about how this site is being run. The changes and new moderators will only help to keep things running smoothly, and should ease the burden on Phil. Before we know it, this site will be back to being as much fun to visit as it ever was , and the topics will be much more cheerful and friendly than they have been of late! :):)

ellisboy
03-08-2012, 13:08
Well Done Phil! You doing a great job Chap :banana:

Smaug
06-08-2012, 10:10
I haven't been on here long, but the latest"change" is for the better..I was getting fed up reading his drivel.

Brilliant site, keep it up pepes:banana:

Sadly, it wasn't "drivel" it was well argued & logical, but somewhat pedantic & sometimes aggressive. There was always good information in his posts. He would probaly have reacted badly to a post like that tho, which may be why you say what you did!

Firefox
06-08-2012, 10:27
Sadly, it wasn't "drivel" it was well argued & logical, but somewhat pedantic & sometimes aggressive. There was always good information in his posts. He would probaly have reacted badly to a post like that tho, which may be why you say what you did!

Agree with Smaug and one or two others who have said similar things. 95% of Notherner's stuff was some of the best posted on the site, it was just a small fraction that upset the apple cart.

Roger Gee
06-08-2012, 12:37
This is Northerner. Phil banned me so a bit later I signed on using this name, simply to double check exactly what I was supposed to have done. Let me first make one thing clear. This will be my only post and I will never re-post under this or any other name. It is easy to do if I really want to, I can use a proxy server so he couldn’t even ban my IP address, but I won’t. He banned me and it’s his forum and, above all, I like to think that I’m honourable and I will not use false pretences to come back but, in the light of the banning, I feel justified in making this one post as I was given no natural justice, was not allowed to challenge it or even ask what the real reason was.

In my opinion I was banned totally unfairly and I think that Phil banned me not because I ‘abused’ anyone but because he got a large number of complaints from certain people with an axe to grind, and I could name a few of them now. I have no doubt that these people knew exactly what they were doing and deliberately kept reporting me every time I showed up their arguments to be what they often were, silly ideas, posted on here with without any real thought or intelligent application.

The thread that resulted in my banning was the one about the site owner who, when interviewed by the BBC was supposed to have complained about the number of motorhomes parked in lay-bys. It actually turns out that her comments were grossly exaggerated!

I was appalled by some of the vile invective aimed at this woman, who was called, amongst other things, a ‘creature’ who charged ‘exorbitant’ prices. She charges from £11 to £18.95 plus EHU and her prices are actually less than many club sites in Cornwall. Anyone who thinks that just under £25 for a camp site in Cornwall in high season is a rip off’ or ‘exorbitant’ has no idea whatsoever of the expenses involved in running a site and the fact that most of the profit has to be made in a very short period.

But what is really appalling is that people throw out these ‘rip-off’ accusations without any evidence and without any comparison with other sites and without any knowledge of the market and the prices charged by her competitors. No site owner can charge ‘exorbitant’ prices as, if they do, no one will use them, they’ll go to another site that is lower. The truth is though, that what some people on this site consider a ‘rip-off’ is simply a price that they don’t want to pay, regardless if it’s a fair price or not.

I have read this thread from beginning to end and can find no example of me ‘abusing anyone’. The nearest that I can get is where I told someone that deliberately making indirect snide comments about people was cowardly. If anyone wants to complain about a member they should do it directly with him and not make nasty little asides that refer to people they don’t like and people they are scared to challenge directly.

So, in my opinion, I wasn’t banned because I abused people. I was banned because a number of very wet big girls’ blouses kept pressing the ‘Report’ button, and if anyone needs banning it’s these people. I know how busy Phil is and I would never continually keep complaining about someone and bothering him, it’s pathetic.

If people really don’t like someone it’s the easiest thing in the world to ignore their posts. I did with one member who I continually found myself at odds with, and I could see that I would seldom agree with him, so, for a quiet life, I put him on my ‘Ignore’ list, the result, no more big arguments with him and no strife. Paradoxically, that member, John H is one person who, like me, would never report anyone as he's man enough to stand up for himself!

But that’s too simple for some folk. They sit there waiting to be offended and if anyone has trounced them in a debate at some stage, they just can’t forget and the sniping goes on.

I would ask anyone to read through the Lay-Bys thread and show me where I ‘abused’ anyone.

Phil’s definition of ‘abuse’ appears to be very different from mine or from the Oxford English Dictionary’s and I repeat, I was banned by him totally unfairly as, in this case, I abused no one and he simply gave in to the moaners and the wet blankets who can’t wait to complain. And yes, he'll tell you that he had a large number of complaints about me, but that's my point. The same people time after time complaining because I argue intelligently and logically and they continually find their often rather silly contributions totally rubbished! It's a fact that, as on any forum it is obvious that there are a number of people who aren't very bright. And that's not being superior or rude, it's an indisputable fact. Until coming on here I have never met anyone who can write an entire post, that should be in at least three or four paragraphs, written as one continuous ramble without a single capital letter, full stop or comma!

Anyway, with the exception of the few people who post the most vile comments about anyone who dares to criticise their view that they should be able to park anywhere at any time, I enjoyed my spell on here and thank the majority of the members, who are much more reasonable and unbiased.

I regret that I will not be able to respond to the inevitable criticisms that I expect from certain people, who knowing that I won’t be around to challenge them can now let their views rip, as opposed to their usual habit of referring indirectly to me in nasty little digs. I’ve been banned and will now honour that.

Ps And isn't the original comment from Rhubarb, just above, typical of the nasty little posts to which I refer? He'll fit in well with a few others on this forum.

Deleted user 21925
06-08-2012, 12:42
I liked Northerner in a lot of ways. His posts were intelligent, considered and informative. Sadly he could come across as aggressive and not wanting to appear to be wrong, however, I found nearly all of his posts to be carefully researched and usually correct!
I personally have not liked the way the forum has gone recently, but not due to rule enforcement or the way the forum is being run, more down to argumentative, abusive posts which is the very thing we need to stamp out.
I have had a couple of days 'rest' from the forum recently and it was well worth it whilst a few things died down. However I did miss it.
I don't expect that we will ever have a Utopia, the forum is too big for that and there are bound to be personality clashes and to some extent the forum would become boring without this. There does however need to be some sort of policing and a need for Moderators. Not a job I would fancy myself though, but good luck to the ones that Phil has appointed.

Smaug
06-08-2012, 12:45
Sorry, but I'm not joining the "Northerner" fan club!

Why would any one expect you to if you are unable to see beyond what you chose to call "drivel"?

I understand that most of what he said was probably clear over your head or hidden by his aggression. So it goes, we are not all the same - why should we be? I am no fan of his style of posting, but no-one with a grain of intelligence could deny the essence of truth in what he said about our inability to see any one's but our own point of view. I'm only sorry he lacked the ability to deal politely with less than thoughtful posters. I am reminded of an old Army phrase "Does not suffer Fools gladly" :raofl:

I was the target of his ascerbic comments from time to time, but I chose not to get into a fight or wind him up further & did not see the point of reporting him. Some people can't change & sometimes I think it is worth my changing to accomodate them.

You don't need to be a "fan" but you, like me, may benefit from the lessons he taught us.

Dezi
06-08-2012, 12:52
Why would any one expect you to if you are unable to see beyond what you chose to call "drivel"?

I understand that most of what he said was probably clear over your head or hidden by his aggression. So it goes, we are not all the same - why should we be? I am no fan of his style of posting, but no-one with a grain of intelligence could deny the essence of truth in what he said about our inability to see any one's but our own point of view. I'm only sorry he lacked the ability to deal politely with less than thoughtful posters. I am reminded of an old Army phrase "Does not suffer Fools gladly" :raofl:

I was the target of his ascerbic comments from time to time, but I chose not to get into a fight or wind him up further & did not see the point of reporting him. Some people can't change & sometimes I think it is worth my changing to accomodate them.

You don't need to be a "fan" but you, like me, may benefit from the lessons he taught us.


Which particular lessons would those be ?

Dezi :pc:

Smaug
06-08-2012, 14:06
[/COLOR]

Which particular lessons would those be ?

Dezi :pc:

I see you missed them completely then. :rolleyes2:

To be aware of the other person's point of view & see where they are coming from. If you like, "to know one's adversary".

mark61
06-08-2012, 14:16
Agree with Smaug and one or two others who have said similar things. 95% of Notherner's stuff was some of the best posted on the site, it was just a small fraction that upset the apple cart.


Pretty much sums up my thoughts. Ok, sometimes a bit full on, but rarely with out being provoked, theres more abusive posts addressed directly at him then he ever made.
There ain't no smoke without fire.

Viktor
06-08-2012, 14:25
I liked Northerner in a lot of ways. His posts were intelligent, considered and informative. Sadly he could come across as aggressive and not wanting to appear to be wrong, however, I found nearly all of his posts to be carefully researched and usually correct!

I would have to agree with this. However I must point out that I didn't see the remainder of the thread that caused this ban to happen. Reading this I presume the ban is permanent, whereas I would have expected perhaps a short term ban. Northerner is correct in that a ban can be easily sidestepped if the 'offender' really wishes to do so by using a proxy server. It is simple to do and is something a lot of people are doing for both privacy reasons and for example to gain access to file sharing sites.

Northerner says he will respect the ban however I do hope he stays around to read this thread and to at least lurk in the background as I'd still like to meet him sometime (though obviously it isn't now going to happen through this forum). Like many other members I just use the 'ignore' button when I find someone whos posts annoy me. So far that has only been free members intent on disruption. All the best for the future Northerner and to any member offended by his comments leading to the ban, I hope you can put aside any offence given and remain a member with the rest of us.

Dezi
06-08-2012, 14:29
Like most members of this site I try to be fully aware of the other persons point of view. So in this instance no lessons needed.

I do not however view others as advesaries.

Possibly that is a lesson somebody else should have learnt.


Dezi :pc:

maingate
06-08-2012, 15:21
I agree with the banning of Northerner.

What he brought to the site was more than offset by his belligerent manner.

If you go back and analyse his posts, in his mind he was always right and others were wrong. If he got a reply that he did not like, he would seize upon a line or phrase in that reply which suited him and simply deflect and prolong the argument.

I sparred with him when he was on Motorhome Facts. He did not antagonise me on there and I just gently took the mick. There were plenty of others who were outraged at some of his posts on there and I know that some members reported him to the Mods. If you are reading this Northerner,I am 747 on there. It does not matter now as I am not renewing my subscription.

I simply put him on my ignore list. If there is someone that you do not get on with on this forum, I can recommend this feature.

n brown
06-08-2012, 16:16
just like to say,having read his post,that ihave neither 'reported ' nor 'ignored'him or anyone,nor do i imagine it likely to happen.

Doodles
06-08-2012, 16:36
Well i have reported him.I am sick of him being such a martyr he was banned but does not even have the respect to stay banned no he has rejoined under a new name showing just how little he cares about other peoples opinions or rules and even if you are a fan of his you should at least see this disrespect.Even under his new alias he has already chosen to have a go at someone on this thread because they dont like him and chose to express it under the understanding he was no longer a part of the group.Well i for one wont be a part of it.It DOES take all sorts to make a group but when people fear to post for fear that what they put down will be criticised and have shreds ripped from them by someone at the other end of the internet then that for me is unacceptable.

Deleted user 21925
06-08-2012, 16:55
Well i have reported him.I am sick of him being such a martyr he was banned but does not even have the respect to stay banned no he has rejoined under a new name showing just how little he cares about other peoples opinions or rules and even if you are a fan of his you should at least see this disrespect.Even under his new alias he has already chosen to have a go at someone on this thread because they dont like him and chose to express it under the understanding he was no longer a part of the group.Well i for one wont be a part of it.It DOES take all sorts to make a group but when people fear to post for fear that what they put down will be criticised and have shreds ripped from them by someone at the other end of the internet then that for me is unacceptable.

You have to consider Will, he was often baited and name-called, often by people who were not even involved with the thread in which he was debating. I too would have reacted to some of the snipes which came in from the sidelines from people just trying to stir him up.

Doodles
06-08-2012, 17:00
Wintonain/Robmac, I respect everything you say you have been a great source of advice to me and that i appreciate to the full but i have nothing further to add to this conversation i said my piece as i think it would be wrong to hide the fact that i have complained about him signing in under a new alias.

maingate
06-08-2012, 17:57
If you deliberately left out the "gently" in "gently take the mick", then you have obviously picked up a few points from Northerner and I will not reply to any remarks you make to this post. :dnd:

Smaug
06-08-2012, 18:35
Like most members of this site I try to be fully aware of the other persons point of view. So in this instance no lessons needed.

I do not however view others as advesaries.

Possibly that is a lesson somebody else should have learnt.


Dezi :pc:


I respect your state of absolute perfection and I am in awe. :bow: I still have much to learn & will only stop learning when they nail down the lid. :lol-053:

The "Adversary" comment is a reference to "the Art of War", I'm surprised that one as erudite as yourself missed that. So it goes. (another literary reference in case you don't know it) :lol-053:

kimbowbill
06-08-2012, 19:12
Do you mean like the Northerner's that are winning the golds??? :rolleyes2: nearly a third to be precise and some are from Yorkshire, oh dear

scampa
06-08-2012, 19:13
I respect your state of absolute perfection and I am in awe. :bow: I still have much to learn & will only stop learning when they nail down the lid. :lol-053:

The "Adversary" comment is a reference to "the Art of War", I'm surprised that one as erudite as yourself missed that. So it goes. (another literary reference in case you don't know it) :lol-053:

That's a bit unfair Smaug.. You defined these lessons as..


To be aware of the other person's point of view & see where they are coming from. If you like, "to know one's adversary".

Most of us on here (ok, maybe not all) are easily capable of seeing others points of view, and that's all that Dezi was referring to when he replied to you.



Like most members of this site I try to be fully aware of the other persons point of view. So in this instance no lessons needed.

I do not however view others as advesaries.

Possibly that is a lesson somebody else should have learnt. Dezi :pc:

Selective reading and editing is all very entertaining, and is useful for prolonging a disagreement, but it's not very sporting! :):)

Dezi
06-08-2012, 20:06
I respect your state of absolute perfection and I am in awe. :bow: I still have much to learn & will only stop learning when they nail down the lid. :lol-053:

The "Adversary" comment is a reference to "the Art of War", I'm surprised that one as erudite as yourself missed that. So it goes. (another literary reference in case you don't know it) :lol-053:

I am not in a state of absolute perfection, I am, as stated, like many other members of this site simply considerate of others viewpoints.

Your hyperbole is embarrassing, stop it.

I missed no references, but simply stated most members’ viewpoint, we do not see other members as adversaries.

Dezi :pc:

Admin
06-08-2012, 20:16
You may not publicly complain about or demand a reason for another user's ban, the deletion of a message, or the deletion/closure of a thread. Any discussion about warnings, bans, message deletion, thread deletion and thread closure should be done over private email between the person concerned and the moderators.



Thread now closed.

Northern was rude and offensive to many members many times. Not once or twice but many times. He was warned privately then publically.

Althought these are all small things they are against the rules and were consistent.

I have let people have their say about his ban, anymore posts will be removed.


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