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View Full Version : What price diplomatic immunity?



Bushtrekker
16-08-2012, 17:15
I've just been watching the story about Julian Assange being given diplomatic asylum by Ecuador and the Government here threatening to lift the diplomatic status of their embassy. The sexual charges which keep being mentioned are that he had consensual sex without a condom, which apparently constitutes rape in Swedish law, not some deviant and dark practice. If the Government goes in it will open the floodgates, after all, they didn't go in when W.P.C. Yvonne Fletcher was murdered, but are willing to do so over this issue. I wondered why the Ecuadorian Embassy was chosen and like most people didn't know much about the country, so I looked it up in the CIA World Factbook, required reading for spies and diplomats.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ec.html

Why anyone is worried about him being lifted from Sweden is beyond me, as the Americans have plenty of 'Advisors', just over the border in Bolivia. With regard to the original issue of Wikileaks, I have an open mind, but as someone pointed out, he could be executed in the States, but so could most members on here if you read the small print in end user licensing agreements for some of the software most people use. The list of countries you can't release various bits of software to keeps growing, every time someone p***es of the U.S. government.:rolleyes:

landydriver
16-08-2012, 17:54
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Deleted user 21925
16-08-2012, 18:00
The law that allows them to enter the embassy was introduced following WPC Yvonne Fletchers' death.

channa
16-08-2012, 18:34
In my mind two issues here, freedom of speech and an allegation of sexual impropriety......
In the case of the former,lots of people have given their lives to defend free speech, and it is intrinsic
Second observations are more complicated, if if indeed. Any sexual activity was truly consesual then no problem
However activity that involves coerced behaviour is patently wrong....and an offender should face the consequences
Channa

Bushtrekker
16-08-2012, 19:29
Any sexual activity was truly consesual then no problem
However activity that involves coerced behaviour is patently wrong....and an offender should face the consequences
Channa

I agree with you, but I think this offence may have been introduced to curb the spread of STD's which were rife in Sweden even in the 70's when a friend's group toured there. I still can't work out the Swedish angle though, apart from wanting to get him out of the public eye and then quietly extradite him, but we also have an extradition treaty, although it only seems to work one way.

mandrake
16-08-2012, 20:14
not realy intrested in what he has done or supposed to have done .but if he has broken the law in a country ,no matter how silly we think that law may be.then he should have to answer the charge after all if he had broken the law of this country and was give assylum in some embassy we would want him correct? as for the leaks he made some things need to be kept secret to protect a state or person or persons.

landydriver
16-08-2012, 20:34
l

mandrake
17-08-2012, 07:19
that is a good question ,but we have to have some person,or group of people in each country who makes the decision what infomation stays secret .but what we need to consider is if anybody leaks that infomation ,then they must be willing to face penelties.in that country,as the old saying goes ,if you carnt do the time dont do the crime.

jamesmarshall
17-08-2012, 07:31
not realy intrested in what he has done or supposed to have done .but if he has broken the law in a country ,no matter how silly we think that law may be.then he should have to answer the charge after all if he had broken the law of this country and was give assylum in some embassy we would want him correct? as for the leaks he made some things need to be kept secret to protect a state or person or persons.

The difficulty, as I understand it, is that Julian Assange has broken British law by not abiding by his bail conditions. The moment he leaves the Ecuadorian Embassy he will be liable for arrest. Given the high profile of the case, I suspect the government will be damned whichever course of action they take.
The people I feel for are the ones who trusted him enough to put up hundreds of thousands of pounds for the bail? all of which is now forfeit.

jamesmarshall
17-08-2012, 07:57
that is a good question ,but we have to have some person,or group of people in each country who makes the decision what infomation stays secret .but what we need to consider is if anybody leaks that infomation ,then they must be willing to face penelties.in that country,as the old saying goes ,if you carnt do the time dont do the crime.

The release of secret information by Wikileaks may have potentially put many lives at risk. Julian Assange was the sole arbitor of the value of its release. The questions I ask are who is he to decide what we should or should not know? What understanding did he have of of any fallout for innocent lives when he chose to release this information? Where was his moral responsibility? Was this done for profit, or self aggrandisement?
I don't know the answers to these questions so don't feel qualified to hold a specific view on his moral or actual guilt in the matter. That he has upset the USA to a high degree is evident and I suspect they will do anything within their power to see him brought to account there. As is often the case, the UK, as a democratic society is caught in the middle of a diplomatic nightmare with very little room to manoeuvre.

mandrake
17-08-2012, 08:04
the only thing is ,he has to leave the embasy at some time but we all know what equador is like could they give him diplomatic status rendering him untouchable.if so he will be free to walk .as for the people that put up his bail ,i dont feel sorry for them as who in there right minds would have given money to help someone like him and with his morals .he has let his friends down big time.

bopper
17-08-2012, 10:08
This man thinks he has been very clever. He has shown the world that he can infiltrate state secrets and has been admired by many people who think that the right to freedom of information is sacrosanct. He is no better than the low life that troll the internet for personal information or those that scam people and steal from their banks. Pressure should be put on Ecuador to release this man to the American government who should punish him to the extreme.
The reason I say this?
One of the best kept secrets ever, was operation overlord during WW2. The allied invasion of Normandy. What if someone had published all the secret details of this operation and others like it? What would we feel like as a nation toward someone who had sold us out for money and notoriety.

Bushtrekker
17-08-2012, 10:26
If the government lifts the diplomatic status of the embassy they will open the doors for every tin pot extremist or fascist government to do the same to our embassies, which are there to represent the interests of British passport holders. I suspect that most people would prefer them to be there if they were arrested for spying while bird watching, or had something put in their bag, so Assange becomes unimportant. If the Americans want him dead they have plenty of snipers and will get him whatever happens, but what they are after is a show trial, to put off others from doing the same.

Lifting the diplomatic immunity of an embassy whose residents have started shooting from windows is one thing, lifting immunity to get someone out who has probably killed far more people by the information he has leaked is another, but he is finished anyway as he can't move from the embassy or board a plane or ferry. I doubt whether the Ecuadorian government would go as far as giving him diplomatic immunity, as they might suddenly discover that all those nice military advisors who help them fight the drug cartels are a thing of the past.

scampa
17-08-2012, 10:31
This man thinks he has been very clever. He has shown the world that he can infiltrate state secrets and has been admired by many people who think that the right to freedom of information is sacrosanct. He is no better than the low life that troll the internet for personal information or those that scam people and steal from their banks. Pressure should be put on Ecuador to release this man to the American government who should punish him to the extreme.
The reason I say this?
One of the best kept secrets ever, was operation overlord during WW2. The allied invasion of Normandy. What if someone had published all the secret details of this operation and others like it? What would we feel like as a nation toward someone who had sold us out for money and notoriety.

I agree completely! He seems to have become a popular hero to many, but although some of the information he has released may have seemed merely "entertaining" or "embarrassing" to some people, some of it may also have caused a great deal of diplomatic damage and in some cases may have put many military and innocent lives at risk.

I don't see him as any kind of hero, but as a traitor with an overgrown ego. I look forward to the day when he arrives in the US.

jamesmarshall
17-08-2012, 10:54
,,,,,,,,,,,The reason I say this?
One of the best kept secrets ever, was operation overlord during WW2. The allied invasion of Normandy. What if someone had published all the secret details of this operation and others like it? What would we feel like as a nation toward someone who had sold us out for money and notoriety.
I'm going off topic a bit here but this reminded me of an incident days before D Day when a compiler of cryptic ctosswords, for The Times i think, was arrested when many of the answers to his clues were codewords for the invasion, Juno, Sword Omaha, Overlord and many more. There was no evidence that he was a secret agent and it was shown that he could not have had access to the intelligence but the matter was seen to be more than coincidence. Spooky or what.:offtopic:

baloothebear
17-08-2012, 11:08
This all sounds a bit like Cardinal József Mindszenty who was granted asylum in the American embassey. He had seriously hacked off the commies but they didn't try to go in and get him

József Mindszenty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zsef_Mindszenty)

bopper
17-08-2012, 11:09
Yes that crossword. Link below if interested.






D-Day crosswords are still a few clues short of a solution - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1460892/D-Day-crosswords-are-still-a-few-clues-short-of-a-solution.html)


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