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Croftland1
15-03-2013, 19:38
The notice below is now being displayed on the Village Green.

12214

I don't think it's any coincidence that it's mounted on the National Trust signpost and that the NT is running the only local campsite that takes m/h's!

We stayed for two nights anyway and I gave the NT Warden my views in no uncertain terms when he attempted to move me on. As you can see to the left of the sign, my m/h remained on the Village Green alongside all the parked cars, whose owners were also taking advantage of free 24hr parking and close access to the Wasdale Head Inn and the surrounding fells. Four other m/h's also stayed, whilst one buckled to his demands and moved onto the campsite.

In our initially heated exchange, the Warden eventually conceded that the Community has no objection to us parking there, but explained that they are being forced by The Friends of The Lake District to prevent parking on The Green next year and to allow it to recover. An adjacent field will then be the designated car parking area. I told him that I would happily comply when the changeover was enforced and that I just wanted to be able to park in the same way as the cars do, as I was not damaging, removing or depositing anything, but simply parking. I then overheard him later, in an informal community meeting in the pub, suggesting that m/h's could be charged 15/night to park!!

P McClure
16-03-2013, 19:56
Might have a drive up to Wasdale head sometime next week. I seem to remember that the road leading up to it is quite narrow with a stone wall on one side and the last mile or so is singletrack.

Whats it like driving up there in a big motorhome please?

Thanks

Peter

scek
16-03-2013, 20:54
no problem at all, we have a kon tiki which is 8m and visit often. the road is narrow but has passing places.
the wardens can be a pain in the arse.

james1508
16-03-2013, 20:57
Thanks for posting this . We have stayed here dozens of times . I seem to remember that the overflow car park is owned by the NT . Think we may have to make are thoughts on the matter known to other forums (Lake district ones) The NT have already ruined the rest of the valley with their signs . I used to me a member of the NT but no more !



The notice below is now being displayed on the Village Green.

12214

I don't think it's any coincidence that it's mounted on the National Trust signpost and that the NT is running the only local campsite that takes m/h's!

We stayed for two nights anyway and I gave the NT Warden my views in no uncertain terms when he attempted to move me on. As you can see to the left of the sign, my m/h remained on the Village Green alongside all the parked cars, whose owners were also taking advantage of free 24hr parking and close access to the Wasdale Head Inn and the surrounding fells. Four other m/h's also stayed, whilst one buckled to his demands and moved onto the campsite.

In our initially heated exchange, the Warden eventually conceded that the Community has no objection to us parking there, but explained that they are being forced by The Friends of The Lake District to prevent parking on The Green next year and to allow it to recover. An adjacent field will then be the designated car parking area. I told him that I would happily comply when the changeover was enforced and that I just wanted to be able to park in the same way as the cars do, as I was not damaging, removing or depositing anything, but simply parking. I then overheard him later, in an informal community meeting in the pub, suggesting that m/h's could be charged 15/night to park!!

james1508
17-03-2013, 09:55
For what its worth i have emailed The Wasdale Head in and copied the NT in too . I have pointed out it will lose the Wasdale Head inn and The Barn Shop business and pointed out mororhome users a generally a responsible bunch . I also pointed out to the NT all the restrictions to Wasdale Head is the main reason i am no longer a member.



James

whitevanwoman
17-03-2013, 10:29
If it is NT land, does that mean that free parking applies to NT members? Or is it no parking for anyone? Including cars?

james1508
17-03-2013, 10:39
The overspill car park ( a field) is also free when its open (at the moment) I would still be a member of the NT it wasnt so anti Motor homes policies . It would be better putting its resources into educating people to leave their camp spot the way they found it and No Fire signs.






If it is NT land, does that mean that free parking applies to NT members? Or is it no parking for anyone? Including cars?

whitevanwoman
17-03-2013, 12:39
The overspill car park ( a field) is also free when its open (at the moment) I would still be a member of the NT it wasnt so anti Motor homes policies . It would be better putting its resources into educating people to leave their camp spot the way they found it and No Fire signs.

I agree and I have to admit that my decision to join the NT for the first time ever last Sept was whilst I was away in Northumberland for a month and was in all honesty, purely financial - by the time I'd paid for entry into various places I wanted to visit (Lindisfarne Castle, Wallington, Cragside 2 days) it made sense to join the NT as I live in Cumbria and have several NT attractions within an hour's drive which I'd also like to visit. I would have easily spent more than the 53 annual membership otherwise. Plus then there's the benefit of free parking. Whilst I admire the NT for the way it maintains so many wonderful old buildings, I do agree that they are very protective of their property. But probably no more so than many other organisations eg National Parks, Friends of Lake District, Forestry Commission, and, as we are now seeing at Helwith in the Yorkshire Dales, parish councils.

I suspect all of these organisations have found in the past that some locations have suffered at the hands of irresponsible campers, whether in tents or vehicles, and so, just as in the case of many council car parks etc, a blanket ban is being imposed which sadly affects a significant number, probably the majority, of people who want to spend time there in a responsible way.

Perhaps motorhomers need to raise awareness of the fact that we are responsible people, who spend significant amounts of time and money in sensitive locations, often putting money into the local economy despite claims that we turn up fully stocked and contribute nothing except litter. Perhaps being very public about litterpicking when you first arrive so that you can then physically demonstrate how your visit is beneficial to the location if anyone tries to move you on, is a step forward. Letters to local newspapers and councils, also to local businesses, pubs, parish councils etc can all make a difference to ensure that local communities do not see motorhomers as a threat but, much the opposite, attracting motorhomers and making specific provision for those who do not want or can't afford the formality of authorised camp sites, can actually offer new opportunities to rural communities.

I'm as guilty as anyone of moaning and groaning at the short sighted narrowminded prejudice against motorhomers but not actually doing anything to change how we are perceived. Perhaps we need to pull together as a group of people and use our collective economic force to persuade such communities that we can offer them something in return for them offering us something.

Having written this, it occurs to me that I could contact my local WI group who are always looking for speakers for their meetings - a 15 minute talk about my adventures wild camping, with some great photos, and evidence of how my visits have benefited not only me personallly but also the local community, will go a long way to making people in my village aware that 1. not all tourists are a nuisance, 2. not everyone who enjoys camping always wants to stay on a campsite 3. a lot of "townies" have the same deep respectful and profound love of the countryside and the environment and simply want to spend time enjoying it and do no harm and may in fact do good by removing litter, reporting problems to authorities, spending in the local economy etc.

All it takes is for us all to initially do something similar - whether it's encouraging your kids at school to do a project on wild camping, or introducing youth groups, brownies, guides, scouts etc to wild camping (and as an ex-youth worker I understand all the H&S difficulties in doing this but it is still possible), or talking at your local parish / town council about your experiences and encouraging them to consider allocating a Motorhome Friendly approach, or having a chat with your local pub landlord, or local business whose large carpark is unused from Friday teatime till Monday morning etc.

It seems to me that at the moment, wild campers find themselves in a defensive position having to defend their activities, and often coming into combat with organisations and authorities. Perhaps we should take a more proactive approach so that relations with such organisations and authorities can be based on sound economic and environmental evidence and we work towards getting their ear rather than their backs up.

No criticism of anyone intended, it just seems to be that going back to one of my favourite analogies, in this case we should use the carrot rather than the stick approach, dangling our economic power and environmental concerns in front of them as a juicy bunch of carrots. Forget Cornwall or Wasdale, and spend your money to support those far sighted authorities with equally lovely places to stay, who are beginning to come round to our way of thinking and let's prove, just like the majority of dog owners are responsible and clear up after their dog, so are motorhomers and it's the small irresponsible minority who spoil it and who we are as fed up with as everyone else.

Time to go and sit on my hands again for a while, my fingers have run away with me here... :scared:

Croftland1
17-03-2013, 15:50
This is my email, sent to the Wasdale Head Inn reception, the hotel owners and copied to the National Trust:

FOR THE ATTENTION OF THE WASDALE COMMUNITY REPRESENTATIVES

Dear Sirs,

My wife and I are frequent visitors to the Lake District and recently visited Wasdale Head for two days of fell walking. During our stay, we parked our motor-home on the only available car park at the time, the Village Green. We are aware from our previous visits that the Village Green is currently used as the free 24-hour public car park serving the Wasdale Head area and that the parking signs provided for three-peaks walkers lead directly to it.

On our arrival, we were greeted by a sign, erected on the National Trust signpost, requesting that camper vans use the existing campsites. We were then subsequently subjected to a visit from Alex, the campsite warden, who attempted to convince us that we were not permitted to park on the Village Green, despite the area clearly being designated and used for 24-hour parking.

Our motor-home is fully self-contained with internal sanitation and fresh and waste water storage tanks; therefore we do not discharge any waste or require any additional facilities. All cooking and washing is performed inside the vehicle and no camping equipment, (tables, chairs, canopies, barbecues etc,) is placed outside. We do not run the engine, play loud music or create any disturbance and we exercise respect for our surroundings and the resident community. In fact the first task performed upon our arrival was a litter-pick around the immediate area. We do not require the facilities of a campsite; merely a parking space, as a car would. We also prefer to park close to the Wasdale Head Inn, where we spend the evenings, purchasing meals and drinks. We believe that the majority of motor-home users are responsible visitors with a positive contribution to make to communities such as Wasdale. By contributing to the economy of the places that we enjoy visiting, through the purchase of meals, drinks, supplies and fuel from local businesses, we hope that motor-home users will become welcome visitors in all areas of the UK. This ideology is already embraced in France and other parts of Europe, where a vast number of local councils provide motor-home specific parking areas with water and waste facilities, (often at no charge,) to entice this valuable source of revenue into the area.

Our discussion with Alex revealed that the Wasdale Community is under pressure to stop vehicles from parking on the Village Green in the near future and to provide adequate alternative parking facilities for visitors. We are also aware that you are currently in discussion with various parties to find a mutual solution to this issue. May we therefore respectfully request that visitors in self-contained motor-homes are provided with equal parking rights to those arriving in cars? To single out motor-homes would simply drive revenue away from the Wasdale Head businesses and into more welcoming communities elsewhere.

We are grateful for the hospitality we have enjoyed on all of our visits to Wasdale and hope that we can continue to visit as welcome guests for many years to come.


Yours faithfully,
Jim Cooper

whitevanwoman
17-03-2013, 16:18
This is my email, sent to the Wasdale Head Inn reception, the hotel owners and copied to the National Trust:

FOR THE ATTENTION OF THE WASDALE COMMUNITY REPRESENTATIVES

Dear Sirs,

My wife and I are frequent visitors to the Lake District and recently visited Wasdale Head for two days of fell walking. During our stay, we parked our motor-home on the only available car park at the time, the Village Green. We are aware from our previous visits that the Village Green is currently used as the free 24-hour public car park serving the Wasdale Head area and that the parking signs provided for three-peaks walkers lead directly to it.

On our arrival, we were greeted by a sign, erected on the National Trust signpost, requesting that camper vans use the existing campsites. We were then subsequently subjected to a visit from Alex, the campsite warden, who attempted to convince us that we were not permitted to park on the Village Green, despite the area clearly being designated and used for 24-hour parking.

Our motor-home is fully self-contained with internal sanitation and fresh and waste water storage tanks; therefore we do not discharge any waste or require any additional facilities. All cooking and washing is performed inside the vehicle and no camping equipment, (tables, chairs, canopies, barbecues etc,) is placed outside. We do not run the engine, play loud music or create any disturbance and we exercise respect for our surroundings and the resident community. In fact the first task performed upon our arrival was a litter-pick around the immediate area. We do not require the facilities of a campsite; merely a parking space, as a car would. We also prefer to park close to the Wasdale Head Inn, where we spend the evenings, purchasing meals and drinks. We believe that the majority of motor-home users are responsible visitors with a positive contribution to make to communities such as Wasdale. By contributing to the economy of the places that we enjoy visiting, through the purchase of meals, drinks, supplies and fuel from local businesses, we hope that motor-home users will become welcome visitors in all areas of the UK. This ideology is already embraced in France and other parts of Europe, where a vast number of local councils provide motor-home specific parking areas with water and waste facilities, (often at no charge,) to entice this valuable source of revenue into the area.

Our discussion with Alex revealed that the Wasdale Community is under pressure to stop vehicles from parking on the Village Green in the near future and to provide adequate alternative parking facilities for visitors. We are also aware that you are currently in discussion with various parties to find a mutual solution to this issue. May we therefore respectfully request that visitors in self-contained motor-homes are provided with equal parking rights to those arriving in cars? To single out motor-homes would simply drive revenue away from the Wasdale Head businesses and into more welcoming communities elsewhere.

We are grateful for the hospitality we have enjoyed on all of our visits to Wasdale and hope that we can continue to visit as welcome guests for many years to come.


Yours faithfully,
Jim Cooper


An excellent letter, Jim. It strikes the perfect balance between reminding the authorities that they should not discriminate for several valid reasons, whilst being respectful and demonstrating responsibility and concern.

Perhaps it could be adapted as a template for others to use for other locations - anyone want to offer to edit it?

(PS. Your old battery has now had a week's use on the road and is performing nicely, much better than the old one, thanks again for the bargain :cheers: Hope to see you at Carrock Fell sometime.

Geraldine
17-03-2013, 16:22
You should ignore this sign as it is stuck on to a board with the NT sign above.It has no logo or authority from the NT.It says "Please refrain",this is a request not enforceable!

james1508
17-03-2013, 16:24
your right of course and Croftland1 had the right idea by discussing the issue with the warden and standing his ground , i still will be using but am hoping nothing legal appears .




You should ignore this sign as it is stuck on to a board with the NT sign above.It has no logo or authority from the NT.It says "Please refrain",this is a request not enforceable!

Croftland1
19-03-2013, 20:26
I have now received the following supportive response from Dr Nigel Burton at the Wasdale Head Inn:

Jim,

Many thanks for your email. At the Inn we welcome your custom, and although
our policy is that we don't want people using our rather small car park for
overnight stays we are flexible and tolerant wherever we can be provided
that the users are responsible like yourself. I suspect that the Trust may
find that flexibility harder, not least because I'm told that a significant
minority of people who spend the night in one of their car parks are either
less considerate or do indeed need the facilities also provided to campers,
in which case it seems entirely reasonable to ask them to pay too.
Personally I'd be more than happy for you and others to use your
motor-homes, however we are also having to deal with a cross-section of
interest groups (which does not include the NT) that think the entire Lake
District should be car free - imagine what that would do to the economy, the
whole county would soon be people free too!

Anyway, please keep coming, and if some bureaucrat tries to force you off
their land then provided you are a customer of ours then I hope we'll have
the space to accommodate you.

Regards,


Nigel

james1508
01-11-2013, 17:45
With The Great Gable Remembrance Sunday service coming up, anyone got an update on the Green ?

cheers

James

loulou
01-11-2013, 18:10
The overspill car park ( a field) is also free when its open (at the moment) I would still be a member of the NT it wasnt so anti Motor homes policies . It would be better putting its resources into educating people to leave their camp spot the way they found it and No Fire signs.

We are also no longer members of the NT for the same reason, their loss.

:drive::drive::drive:

Croftland1
03-11-2013, 07:56
With The Great Gable Remembrance Sunday service coming up, anyone got an update on the Green ?

cheers

James

I think it's still the same James. We will be visiting again before long, now that the summer 3-peakers have gone.
For the remembrance walk, we park in Seathwaite and go up via Sour Milk Ghyll.

Jim

james1508
03-11-2013, 09:09
Cheers Jim,

Seathwaite has crossed our minds, we did this route via Green Gable the first year we did it in 2005 , it was a cracking day the best One in the last 8 years of doing it. We normally do Wasdale to make a weekend of it and usually meet up with friends that camp and want a near by pub, however this year it looks like its just Tracey and I so the opportunity to do it from Seathwaite may be an option. Maybe see you there Jim.

Regards

James

18114 18115 18116 November 2005, Remembrance Sunday service on Great Gable



I think it's still the same James. We will be visiting again before long, now that the summer 3-peakers have gone.
For the remembrance walk, we park in Seathwaite and go up via Sour Milk Ghyll.

Jim

Croftland1
03-11-2013, 15:58
We cycle to the Riverside Bar at the Scafell Hotel in Rosthwaite. There's a campsite a short walk away if you did have friends joining you. There will be a group of us in the Riverside Bar on Saturday night. All staying in m/h's at various places around Rosthwaite / Stonethwaite / Seathwaite. Maybe see you for a beer if you decide to stay that side.

james1508
03-11-2013, 17:03
Maybe see you there Jim, if i take the bikes we may see you in the pub (for a 1/2 of shandy of course ) :cheers:


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