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grahamb
09-10-2013, 15:11
in the uk diesel is roughly 5 pence per litre dearer than petrol we are told that's because its more expensive to refine diesel so why is diesel about 5 p cheaper per litre than petrol in both France and the republic of Ireland not another con lol

Jean Genie
09-10-2013, 15:14
It is all refined at the same time. Price difference is down to supply and demand, taxation and greed.

sasquatch
09-10-2013, 15:20
Years ago when I started driving )pre-decimal) Diesel was half the price of petrol and for many years it was always considerably cheaper until we started buying more diesel cars!

mariesnowgoose
09-10-2013, 15:32
Years ago when I started driving )pre-decimal) Diesel was half the price of petrol and for many years it was always considerably cheaper until we started buying more diesel cars!

I brought this up in a previous thread, but some folk who know a bit more about the oil industry suggested that you get less diesel than petrol from the refining process, or some such, hence the price difference.

Pound to a penny it's because we've all been buying more diesel cars - Jean Genie is spot on! ;)

dave and mary
09-10-2013, 15:37
Why is that prices so different from garage to garage, where we live Tesco is 142.9 the garage opposite is 1.44.9 the esso down the road is 143.9 the garage on the A422 about 3 miles out of town 135.9 this is for diesel, There must be a reason for this does anyone know ?

:drive: :drive:

Jean Genie
09-10-2013, 15:41
It is all refined at the same time. Price difference is down to supply and demand, taxation and greed.


Why is that prices so different from garage to garage, where we live Tesco is 142.9 the garage opposite is 1.44.9 the esso down the road is 143.9 the garage on the A422 about 3 miles out of town 135.9 this is for diesel, There must be a reason for this does anyone know ?

:drive: :drive:

Points one and three.

mariesnowgoose
09-10-2013, 15:41
Why is that prices so different from garage to garage, where we live Tesco is 142.9 the garage opposite is 1.44.9 the esso down the road is 143.9 the garage on the A422 about 3 miles out of town 135.9 this is for diesel, There must be a reason for this does anyone know ?

:drive: :drive:

Profiteering :) Some are better at it than others ;)

zipnolan
09-10-2013, 15:55
In Germany the prices on the pumps change through the day, cheaper in the quiet times and dearer at the peak times.

spigot
09-10-2013, 15:59
in the uk diesel is roughly 5 pence per litre dearer than petrol we are told that's because its more expensive to refine diesel so why is diesel about 5 p cheaper per litre than petrol in both France and the republic of Ireland not another con lol

It doesn't seem that long ago that diesel was half the price of petrol in Europe.

I'm no petro-chemical engineer but basic science suggests there's less refining in diesel.

The simple answer is we're being "Ripped Off"

sparrks
09-10-2013, 17:04
Why is that prices so different from garage to garage, where we live Tesco is 142.9 the garage opposite is 1.44.9 the esso down the road is 143.9 the garage on the A422 about 3 miles out of town 135.9 this is for diesel, There must be a reason for this does anyone know ?

:drive: :drive:

If they were all the same price then they would be accused of price fixing. :) Prices are generally set to achieve maximum profit.

Mastodon
09-10-2013, 17:30
Just wait until LPG becomes widespread. Suddenly it will become 'more expensive to refine' or is my 'cynical lock' stuck on again?

invalid
09-10-2013, 17:36
Totally right, I produce bio diesel from old veg oil, have a look at the price of new veg oil, always very close to the price of diesel and no cheaper if you buy a larger quantity, bit like sugar, and may be some price fixing? Surely not, that would be dishonest and we all know how straight forward and honest business and the government are.

Mastodon
09-10-2013, 17:44
Yep. Veg oil used to be dirt cheap.

chrisinbrighton
09-10-2013, 18:00
Totally right, I produce bio diesel from old veg oil, have a look at the price of new veg oil, always very close to the price of diesel and no cheaper if you buy a larger quantity, bit like sugar, and may be some price fixing? Surely not, that would be dishonest and we all know how straight forward and honest business and the government are.
yes the Tories are dishonest but apart from that government invested in diesel back in the 70's bought buses ect to profit from diesel hence the disapearence of trams & trolley busses which they now regret say no more

thegasman2000
09-10-2013, 18:56
I am trying to figure out if petrol is cheaper per mile than diesel on the continent and struggling to find prices for the EU. I know you get a higher MPG for diesel but is it the same 5-10% more expensive on the continent as the UK?

I was always told that we dont produce diesel here in the UK at all.:idea-007: And that it is a byproduct of refining which is why it used to be so much cheaper. We all bought diesel cars and the tax went through the roof.

So petrol or diesel for on the continent driving?

David & Ann
09-10-2013, 20:56
in the uk diesel is roughly 5 pence per litre dearer than petrol we are told that's because its more expensive to refine diesel so why is diesel about 5 p cheaper per litre than petrol in both France and the republic of Ireland not another con lol

In my opinion that is incorrect. Diesel was cheaper many moons ago. Because gasoline (Petrol) prices were rising folks were buying diesel cars. That is why the Government of the day pushed up diesel prices which ran riot and now is more expensive that Gasoline. In most if not all EU countries diesel is still cheaper. I do not think it has anything to do with the cost of refining. Perhaps I am wrong but that is what I was to understand many moons ago.

sparrks
09-10-2013, 21:15
The duty on Petrol and Diesel are of the same rate in the UK

UK Fuel Excise Duty rates – all figures quoted to 1 decimal place
Fuel type Fuel duty
(from Jan 2011) Fuel duty
(from 23 Mar 2011) Fuel duty now
(from 01 Jan 2012) Fuel duty
(from 01 Sept 2013)
Ultra-Low Sulphur Petrol 59.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre
Ultra-Low Sulphur Diesel 59.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre
Biodiesel used as a road fuel 59.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre
Bioethanol used as a road fuel 59.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre 58.0 p/litre
LPG used as a road fuel 33.0 p/kg 31.6 p/kg 31.6 p/kg 31.6 p/kg
Natural gas used as a road fuel 26.2 p/kg 24.7 p/kg 24.7 p/kg 24.7 p/kg
Electricity Zero Zero Zero Zero

info from Fuel Duty UK | Fuel Tax Rates 2013 | Next Green Car (http://www.nextgreencar.com/car-tax/fuel-duty.php)

Why is fuel tax so high? http://www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/why-is-tax-on-petrol-diesel-so-high

UK petrol and diesel sector
An OFT Call for Information

http://www.oft.gov.uk/shared_oft/markets-work/oft1475.pdf

El Veterano
10-10-2013, 07:02
Current price for diesel in France is around €1.30 per litre (£1.10) and petrol is about €1.46. If they can sell diesel cheaper than petrol, with a far higher percentage of diesel cars to petrol, then why can't the UK?

invalid
10-10-2013, 09:13
Therein lies the rub

maxi77
10-10-2013, 12:16
The reason that diesel is cheaper in many countries is that diesel is taxed less than petrol where as our lot tax diesel and petrol at the same level. As for the reason oil companies charge more here I think there are two reasons, first the premium we pay helps to pay for the discounts given to big fleet operators using the agency card system, second most diesel is used by business, they cannot cut back, and the fuel is usually bought by some one who does not pay personally for the fuel and who is much more attracted by various give aways so oil companies get away with it. If the big users could coordinate a buying 'strike' the price would fall pretty rapidly

mark61
10-10-2013, 12:56
Fuel is more expensive in UK because we have higher Excise duty. Duty on petrol and diesel is the same % in UK, and has been for years. Virtually every other country in Europe, diesel is taxed lower then petrol.

dave and mary
10-10-2013, 14:45
The reason that diesel is cheaper in many countries is that diesel is taxed less than petrol where as our lot tax diesel and petrol at the same level. As for the reason oil companies charge more here I think there are two reasons, first the premium we pay helps to pay for the discounts given to big fleet operators using the agency card system, second most diesel is used by business, they cannot cut back, and the fuel is usually bought by some one who does not pay personally for the fuel and who is much more attracted by various give aways so oil companies get away with it. If the big users could coordinate a buying 'strike' the price would fall pretty rapidly

Yes this makes a big difference with most cards I think it is a minimum of 6p of the pump price.


:drive: :drive:

Crustacean
10-10-2013, 18:57
You are correct regards refining and being ripped off.

The principle reason diesel has overtaken petrol in price in Europe is 1] Taxation has levelled up between the two 2] More importantly, demand.

The emerging industrial countries like India, China and Brazil are buying diesel and diesel-like oil fractions such as space heating oil, gangbusters. Massive amounts of it, and more all the time, are used by these countries in industrial machinery and vehicles. Diesel and space-heating oil are pretty much interchangeable - essentially the same stuff. If l got low on my c/h oil tank l could keep the home fire burning with a few galls of diesel till the heating oil truck arrived. So heating oil falls into the same demand sector as diesel. Note how the cost of diesel goes up as colder weather sets in.

yorkslass
10-10-2013, 19:49
what really gets my goat is the price differential in various parts of the country from the same supermarket, and I don't mean out of the way places that cost more to deliver to.

Techno100
10-10-2013, 19:57
Gordon Brown was the culprit for increased diesel prices.
This was after encouraging more companies and business users to switch to diesel

RoaminRog
11-10-2013, 07:49
A low and dirty trick indeed, almost as low and dirty as stealing from the Pension fund! Why is he still free and walking the streets!!

sparrks
22-10-2013, 20:02
Ref: Grangemouth.

"UK refining capacity

The number of refineries in the UK has been falling for decades and at the moment there are seven.

Coryton in Essex was the most recent to close after its owner Petroplus, filed for bankruptcy in 2012.

But analysts say there is still overcapacity in Western Europe and the situation has been made worse recently by cheap fuel imports from the United States.

US refineries pay around $15 a barrel less than UK refineries for crude oil, which has helped US firms to export cheap fuel to the UK.

But Professor Kemp says there is a longer term issue of energy security for the UK as "we can't always rely on cheap imports of fuel".

At the moment the UK imports 47% of the diesel and 50% of the aviation fuel it needs.

But for petrol there is currently a 20% oversupply, according to figures from the research group, IHS Purvin & Getz.

Its research shows that if two refineries were to close down, the UK would rely on imports for more than 70% of its diesel and jet fuel and more than 20% of its petrol."

GinaRon
22-10-2013, 20:21
A low and dirty trick indeed, almost as low and dirty as stealing from the Pension fund! Why is he still free and walking the streets!!

My understanding is that Mrs Thatcher (Milk snatcher) was the first to allow pension funds to be raided

Techno100
22-10-2013, 20:24
She also sold off Gas Electric Water Telephone etc etc which is why we are being shafted now while the priveledged shareholders coin it in.

Smaug
22-10-2013, 20:26
She also sold off Gas Electric Water Telephone etc etc which is why we are being shafted now while the priveledged shareholders coin it in.

NHS next, the bar stewards.

snowbirds
22-10-2013, 20:30
Hi all.

We have been paying about 1.33 for Diesel for the last six weeks in France and Spain,but I was told the French have the petrol cost in their tax for the road but not over sure.

Snowbirds.:rolleyes2::rolleyes2::sad::sad::lol-053::lol-053::scared::scared:

maxi77
22-10-2013, 20:43
My understanding is that Mrs Thatcher (Milk snatcher) was the first to allow pension funds to be raided

Now I thought that she left pensions alone,and her successor protected company pension funds after Bob Maxwell was found to have had his hand in the till. In general Labour has been the party of taxing pension funds as they used to assume their voters were not fund members or at least would not connect a tax on their pension with a lower pension

invalid
23-10-2013, 09:10
The only thing that can be relied on in privatization:
Assets stripped for fast profit.
Increased cost to consumer.
If something disastrous happens, Like Chernobyl, the company goes bankrupt.
Gives one that warm fuzzy feeling that’s alls well in the corporate world.

Trigano Nicky
23-10-2013, 13:45
in the uk diesel is roughly 5 pence per litre dearer than petrol we are told that's because its more expensive to refine diesel so why is diesel about 5 p cheaper per litre than petrol in both France and the republic of Ireland not another con lol

Actually I think it's petrol that takes more refining. Diesel now costs more because more of us are using it and the fuel companies are greedy. I think the cost of fuel has only a passing link to oil prices, otherwise why do the fuel costs go up for the summer holidays and down again at the end. If the prices had jumped to the current cost a year ago we would all be up in arms - but the price has been allowed to slowly creep up so we all get used to it. Does that sound a bit 'conspiracy theory ish' ? Oh well.

Nicky


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