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View Full Version : Lpg fill up - The fitter was/is a tit.



Touringtheworld
29-10-2013, 16:58
Today in I headed in a casual manner to a good friends fuel station (also a keen MH owner) for him to show me the correct way to fill the Lpg tank via the nozzle/socket type behaviour.

A bit pushing and shoving and swearing and head scratching got no connection. Close inspection of said nozzle/socket coupling behaviour on the van. The only printable word was 'tit' - inside the back of the socket the fitter has put the screws in back to front so stick out into the coupling socket stopping the coupler going in all the way. tit

Suffice to say - good job it was a trial run - might be different in the middle of Europe.

I'll update on progress.

FULL TIMER
29-10-2013, 17:38
from memory the screws do go in that way but they normally provide an extra shorter set for thinner panels , it is mentioned in the gaslow instructions to check that they don't protrude into filling area and preventing the nozzle fitting correctly, why they can't just make a filler with a decent flange on it that fixes from outside I don't know.

QFour
29-10-2013, 18:24
from memory the screws do go in that way but they normally provide an extra shorter set for thinner panels , it is mentioned in the gaslow instructions to check that they don't protrude into filling area and preventing the nozzle fitting correctly, why they can't just make a filler with a decent flange on it that fixes from outside I don't know.

That's to simple .. :blah:

Just think how many man hours have been and are going to be wasted putting it right.

Smaug
29-10-2013, 18:27
That's to simple .. :blah:

Just think how many man hours have been and are going to be wasted putting it right.

About 10 mins?

Use an indelible marker pen to make the exposed threads coloured. Unscrew them, cut off the coloured bit of the screws & screw back in. Job done.

rugbyken
29-10-2013, 19:29
I bought my kit direct from the Loughborough warehouse the straining socket came with three different length sets of screws recommend using longest set to pull it into place & then fit correct ones

ivecotrucker
29-10-2013, 21:01
Fulltimer is correct; the screws do go in "back to front". I've heard of this happening on several new bulk gas installations (including my own !!!). You may find that even once corrected, some gas station connector nozzles are more difficult to use than others.

DTDog
30-10-2013, 06:41
This slightly off topic, but it got me thinking about how many if us now use Garage LPG as our supply of gas.
I wonder what percentage of LPG is used on vehicles using LPG as engine fuel (not just motorhomes) rather than motorhomes using it for heating / cooking etc.?

I personally don't know of anyone who use LPG in their cars.

Why does it matter?
Well, even though it's much cheaper (and more convenient) than bottled gas, we are still paying exise duty on this gas, which if only used for heating etc you don't have to pay.
I have heard that you can, in theory claim this tax back, but do any of us do this and if you do, how do you go about claiming it back?

Smaug
30-10-2013, 08:32
It should be possible to buy it at 5% vat & no fuel tax if you tell the garage that it is not for transportation. I understand that "Countrywide" shops can supply it at 5% vat.

Touringtheworld
30-10-2013, 09:03
My Nephew has sorted it - yes the bolt type screws were in the correct way but the wrong length.

As mentioned already - frustrating and an extra job to do on a new vehicle.

I find it easier to get these little jobs done by my Nephew than trailing back to the manufacturer.

Right I will go in a casual manner to my good friend fuel station ................. :-)

PinkFlowerPetal
30-10-2013, 09:24
It should be possible to buy it at 5% vat & no fuel tax if you tell the garage that it is not for transportation. I understand that "Countrywide" shops can supply it at 5% vat.

Yes that is true, but you have to register for an account first, stating only used for cooking and heating, and pay a deposit for a key. Also you can go anytime day or night, they give you access numbers for data locks, and no need for card or cash, pay by DD after invoice received in post ..... I find it is great ..... the cheapest way to get gas!

steptoe
30-10-2013, 10:34
I personally don't know of anyone who use LPG in their cars.



My range rover is LPG.
Pluuuuuuus, my diesel hymer has a duel fuel engine and has it's own LPG tank for the engine, as well as my separate habitation LPG tank.

Smaug
30-10-2013, 12:17
My range rover is LPG.
Pluuuuuuus, my diesel hymer has a duel fuel engine and has it's own LPG tank for the engine, as well as my separate habitation LPG tank.

like to give us feedback on the diesel/lpg system? How much do you think it saves & what effect does it have on mpg - can you tell?

DTDog
30-10-2013, 15:21
Can Diesel engines be converted to run on LPG? (http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/diesel.html)

Aladdinsane
30-10-2013, 15:31
Can Diesel engines be converted to run on LPG? (http://www.go-lpg.co.uk/diesel.html)

I had a look at that, it is dated 2008, a lot can happen in 5 years!

Diesel LPG conversion (http://www.ozonlpg.com/diesellpg.html)

I'm still not convinced that the engine would last as long as a pure diesel.

Cliffy
30-10-2013, 19:16
The garage that look after my Motorhome (AMR Autos, Stokesley, Yorkshire) used to specialise in converting cars to LPG but the have stopped doing it because it is no longer advantageous with the increase in the cost of gas, reduced miles per Litre from running on Gas and the capital cost of the conversion.

I get my gas from them and pay 79p per litre. I don't ask for the tax back as I only use 13 per year of it.

Smaug
30-10-2013, 20:25
Keep the wind on your back, the sun on your face and cast all your shadows behind you.

I suspect that is an American quote, cos to keep the sun on my face I need to walk SW, which is into the prevailing wind here in the UK.

John Thompson
31-10-2013, 08:48
It should be possible to buy it at 5% vat & no fuel tax if you tell the garage that it is not for transportation. I understand that "Countrywide" shops can supply it at 5% vat.

It is possible to get it at 5% vat. Calor and Countrywide will do it. Flogas and the petrol forecourt operators cannot be bothered to change there tills/accounting systems to accommodate it. There is nothing we can do at present about fuel excise duty. I have tried.

Fuel excise duty is charged to the operator at delivery, to a tank for use by road vehicles, by HMRC. There is no mechanism available for garage to reclaim the duty if they supply for heating and refrigeration from stock "set aside" for vehicle propulsion. The only way of getting it duty free is if the supplier could set up a separate tank for non road use. This is not economically viable.

I have found only one filling station willing to supply at 5% VAT and that is at Grizebeck in the south lakes. I have contacted most of the major fuel suppliers and they come back with the standard reply, that their systems cannot accommodate it.

HM Customs are OK with it


When gas is not set aside or used as a road fuel it is not liable to excise duty and should be
bought from a supplier as such with VAT at 5%. It is for this reason that no scheme is in
place to allow recovery.

There is no scheme in place to recover the duty or VAT excess for LPG there is however a one in place for Bio Diesel and it is operated from the Mineral Oils Reliefs Centre in Gosforth, Newcastle upon Tyne.


VAT public notice no.76, "Excise duty on gas for use as fuel in road vehicles"

Para.2.2 states
"If a road vehicle carries gas-powered equipment (for example, refrigerating apparatus or an exhaust
gas purifier) the gas for such equipment is liable to duty if it is drawn from or connected to a supply
which is also used to propel the vehicle, even though such equipment does not contribute to the
propulsion of the vehicle. Gas for use in such equipment is not liable to duty if it is drawn from an
independent supply.
Gas is not chargeable with Excise duty if it is used for heating, or for industrial or scientific purposes."

HMRC Advice is

You can draw a supplier's attention to the public notice and emphasise that your intended
use is for heating/cooking and not for powering the vehicle. If necessary you might offer to
provide the supplier with a written declaration in which you state your intended use. This
would be something that the supplier could retain as evidence in support of a supply free of
duty. Any officer of HMRC that examines the supplier's accounts would thus be able to
satisfy him/herself that a supply was legitimately made without duty and with VAT at the
reduced rate.
Yours sincerely,
Robert White

CUSTOMS, INTERNATIONAL TRADE &
EXCISE ENQUIRIES
Crownhill Court
Tailyour Road
Plymouth
PL6 5BZ

Date 12th April 2012
Our Ref IT12-77299

When I contacted one of the major suppliers (RONCO) about this I received a letter from them saying I could no longer use any of their filling stations. So beware.

I am not a light user and use about 1000 litres of LPG per year for heating, Cooking, refrigeration and the generator. So it was in my interest to check this all out thoroughly.


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