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CrappyVanButFun
17-11-2013, 14:50
Hi wondering this year about winter tyres but I can`t decide on wether a 94T is strong enough for a Peugeot Expert 2004.

I have 2 new Maxxis 205/65 r15 99V XL ( extra load ) tyres all season I bought when very cheap earlier in the year for the rear may be OK.

I was told 94 weight rated might be better as more comfortable ?

So I am for the front proper winter tyres down to Continental winter contacts st850 94H or Nokian WR D3 99XL and simply can`t decide.

Any thoughts, advice , experiance etc etc.

Thanks Mark.

Tezza33
17-11-2013, 15:51
I am also looking at winter tyres but mainly because I will be in some Countries where you have to have them fitted in the Winter, I would not fit them just on the front myself though because losing grip on the back on a snow covered corner isn't a good idea, it might be just the excuse your insurance company needs not to pay out.
I am looking at these (http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/car-tyres-HANKOOK/WINTER,RW06/215,70,R15,109,R,8-PR.html)

Aladdinsane
17-11-2013, 16:06
I wonder how long it will take the manufacturers to develop Spring, Summer and Autumn tyres to get the extra out of our pockets.

If you you drive sensibly and do not go out unless it is necessary on 'normal' tyres as I have done for the last 40 years why do you need 'winter' tyres for the brief periods of snow and ice that we get .

zipnolan
17-11-2013, 16:24
I wonder how long it will take the manufacturers to develop Spring, Summer and Autumn tyres to get the extra out of our pockets.

If you you drive sensibly and do not go out unless it is necessary on 'normal' tyres as I have done for the last 40 years why do you need 'winter' tyres for the brief periods of snow and ice that we get .

having winter tyres does make a huge difference.

Aladdinsane
17-11-2013, 17:29
having winter tyres does make a huge difference.

That's convinced me ??? I'll get me wallet out.

mark61
17-11-2013, 17:29
I am also looking at winter tyres but mainly because I will be in some Countries where you have to have them fitted in the Winter, I would not fit them just on the front myself though because losing grip on the back on a snow covered corner isn't a good idea, it might be just the excuse your insurance company needs not to pay out.
I am looking at these (http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/car-tyres-HANKOOK/WINTER,RW06/215,70,R15,109,R,8-PR.html)


If you'd rather not go to the expense of a dedicated winter tyre, then tyres with the M+S mark are legal to use in all countries (in Europe at least) that have a winter tyre law. Also save changing tyres after winter months.

ricc
17-11-2013, 17:41
everyone has to make their own mind up given their circumstances.

for me i guess ive driven less than 10 miles on snow in any one year in the recent past, so have no need to change to special tyres, the tyres i normally use are suitable for the conditions i realistically expect to encounter.

if i had to drive mega miles whatever the weather in a more arctic part of the country i would reasses.

mark61
17-11-2013, 17:55
Winter tyres are more about low temperatures, then snow or ice. They are better in low temperature on any surface. Not that I'd buy them, M+S are good enough for me. Unless of course the law changes, lol

CrappyVanButFun
17-11-2013, 18:18
Hi well I use my van all the time as transport too, hence a van like the expert ( and scudo+ dispatch the same ).

The Goodyear Vector 4 All season looks good but I think 94 max weight wise though not sure.

The Continental winter contact ts850 gets rave reviews and is described as an all year round trye by some, but only 94 and not XL.

Anyone felt the difference between 94 and say 99XL on a medium sized van ?

We have always kept 4 winter tyres on the car in the cold season and the difference is chalk and cheese.

My cousin has a golf with silly big and low profile tryes, so he got smaller metal ones and 2 chinese el cheapo snow tyres on the front 2.

He went from not even being able to get out of his parking spot to driving all over no bother in the snow etc even with the chinese rubber on.

Best Mark.

Tezza33
17-11-2013, 18:24
Thinking about it you might be ok with them just on the front, if you put snowchains on you don't put them on the back as well and as long as they are the same on each axle I don't think it is illegal, it isn't as if you would be throwing it around corners in the snow anyway

CrappyVanButFun
17-11-2013, 18:31
The all season Maxxis tyres I may put on the back with winters front are pretty chunky, so may be OK, but yes 4 dedicated winters are great, coming down hills is where you really notice that.

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop.pl?s_p=Maxxis-MA-AS-205_65-R15-99V-XL&details=Ordern&typ=R-148412&cart_id=4621169.110.13077&ranzahl=4&Breite=205&Quer=65&Felge=15&weiter=0&Ang_pro_Seite=10&rf=1&Transport=P&dsco=110&sowigan=GAN&m_s=3&x_tyre_for=PKWGAN&rsmFahrzeugart=PKW

Winters front and smoothies rear your tail end can come around a bit.

Best Mark.

mark61
17-11-2013, 18:32
94 is very low. The latest Expert is plated at 1700Kg at the rear. 94's are 670 Kg

Seannachie
17-11-2013, 18:36
I'd certainly be tempted to replace my Continental Vanco 2 225/75 R16Cs with M&S or Winter tyres for winter touring abroad in countries which insist on them were it not for the following:

1. My current tyres are new, having done a mere 6,000 miles, and

2. The only M&S or Winter tyres which match the fuel consumption of my current tyres ('C' on the new EU labelling scheme) cost anywhere in the region of 160-180 each. Most cheaper tyres have fuel ratings of E, F or G, which can make a substantial difference to fuel costs - 10% say the 'experts' who designed the labelling scheme; they also have lower ratings for braking than my current Vanco 2s.

3. I have driven for years in the snow in Scotland and always managed to get from A to B without accident if the roads were passable at all.

Asto
17-11-2013, 19:36
The more we give credence to this the more chance there is of compulsion!

m30
17-11-2013, 21:08
I'd certainly be tempted to replace my Continental Vanco 2 225/75 R16Cs with M&S or Winter tyres for winter touring abroad in countries which insist on them were it not for the following:

1. My current tyres are new, having done a mere 6,000 miles, and

2. The only M&S or Winter tyres which match the fuel consumption of my current tyres ('C' on the new EU labelling scheme) cost anywhere in the region of 160-180 each. Most cheaper tyres have fuel ratings of E, F or G, which can make a substantial difference to fuel costs - 10% say the 'experts' who designed the labelling scheme; they also have lower ratings for braking than my current Vanco 2s.

3. I have driven for years in the snow in Scotland and always managed to get from A to B without accident if the roads were passable at all.


the difference between a and g in the fuel efficiency rating is 6 litres of fuel over 625 miles. i didnt even consider that small a difference worth worrying about and concentrated on the wet stopping distance. i ended up getting some for 64 each with the same specs as michelins which were twice the price

stu

Asto
17-11-2013, 21:12
the difference between a and g in the fuel efficiency rating is 6 litres of fuel over 625 miles. i didnt even consider that small a difference worth worrying about and concentrated on the wet stopping distance. i ended up getting some for 64 each with the same specs as michelins which were twice the price

stu

Michelin are a bit like Levi jeans, living on past glories.

exwindsurfer
17-11-2013, 21:52
I had a set of Nokian winter tyre on my auto mondeo for 4 years and found them to be a fantastic tyre in snow never had a problem in snow or ice .So i have just had a set of 215/70/15in nokian WRC snow tyres fitted to my citroen relay as we intend to do some wilding over the winter months .I dont think you could use a better tyre.

Tezza33
17-11-2013, 22:06
I had a set of Nokian winter tyre on my auto mondeo for 4 years and found them to be a fantastic tyre in snow never had a problem in snow or ice .So i have just had a set of 215/70/15in nokian WRC snow tyres fitted to my citroen relay as we intend to do some wilding over the winter months .I dont think you could use a better tyre.Where did you get them from?, they are the size on my Hymer but I cannot find them anywhere

zipnolan
18-11-2013, 07:38
I got mine from here if your nearby ........

Tyrewise Car Van and Truck tyre fitting Exhausts Batteries (http://www.tyrewise.co.uk/)

they was helpful, cheaper than most and will fit at your address if within a certain area, I paid 80 each fitted, ideal for the German snowy mountains.

FN.... if you have 215/70R/15C which is the most common for the Fiat Ducato/Sprinter type models, you can replace with 225/70R/15C, this doubles your options to find cheaper winter tyres.
I also bought some second hand wheelhubs to have the winter tyres fitted onto, they are 5 studded which also fit Ducato, Sprinter and Master (from Ebay), don't forget if you presently have summer tyres fitted onto alloy's you will have to have the different wheel studs/bolts as well if changing wheels every winter.

Seannachie
18-11-2013, 07:38
the difference between a and g in the fuel efficiency rating is 6 litres of fuel over 625 miles. i didnt even consider that small a difference worth worrying about and concentrated on the wet stopping distance.

I agree with your conclusion if your figures are correct, but can you please advise me where you got them from, i.e., 6 litres over 625 miles?


i ended up getting some for 64 each with the same specs as michelins which were twice the price

stu

Can you please give me more information, such as make, spec., and where you bought them?

TIA

mark61
18-11-2013, 07:59
I remember reading the difference between a & g rated tyres is something like 7% at 50 MPH I think.
See if I can find it.

mark61
18-11-2013, 08:14
Labelling Goodyear (http://www.goodyear.eu/uk_en/tire-advice/eu-tire-label/fuel-efficiency/index.jsp) and Michelin (http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/buying-guide/future-tyre-labelling)

Michelin state a saving of 80 litres between a & g, over the life of the tyres, lol, that can't be right.
Last two sets of tyres I've had I sold at about 45 000 miles with good tread on them, apparently some people get well over 70 000 miles on them. I won't worry about the 80 litre saving. :)

Seannachie
18-11-2013, 13:53
Labelling Goodyear (http://www.goodyear.eu/uk_en/tire-advice/eu-tire-label/fuel-efficiency/index.jsp) and Michelin (http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/buying-guide/future-tyre-labelling)

Michelin state a saving of 80 litres between a & g, over the life of the tyres, lol, that can't be right.
Last two sets of tyres I've had I sold at about 45 000 miles with good tread on them, apparently some people get well over 70 000 miles on them. I won't worry about the 80 litre saving. :)

Thanks for those links.


I've now found a video about it by Continental (see here: http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/www/tyres_uk_en/themes/tyrelabel/eu_label_movie_en.html), which states that the difference between each class (A-F) for fuel consumption is 1 Litre per 1000 Kms and that seems to be in accordance with the EU Directive which lays down the labelling requirements etc.

On that basis then Michelin seems to be indicating that their tires are good for only 80,000 Kms or 50,000 miles! Not that mine ever lasted that long due to punctures. :mad1:

Continental also say here: http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/www/tyres_uk_en/themes/van-tyres/winter-tyres/why-winter-tyres.html
If you are reluctant to change tyres and have nowhere to store summer tyres when they are not in use, you are better off using winter tyres all year round.

Winter tyres are as quiet and comfortable as summer tyres and, thanks to sophisticated compound technology, do not wear any more quickly.

There is a slight trade off with stopping distances as a winter tyre does not stop as quickly in the dry as a summer tyre, however, on balance if it is not possible to switch tyres in the winter, experts say you are better off with winter tyres all year round. This is because the difference in stopping distances of summer tyres in winter is far greater than for winter tyres in the summer. (My underlining)

maingate
18-11-2013, 14:56
I have Michelin Agilis tyres on my van, M+S rated.

The biggest advantage I have found is that they are much better on wet grass and mud than the previous Michelin XC Camping tyres. They truly were atrocious tyres.

Asto
18-11-2013, 14:57
Thanks for those links.


I've now found a video about it by Continental (see here: http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/www/tyres_uk_en/themes/tyrelabel/eu_label_movie_en.html), which states that the difference between each class (A-F) for fuel consumption is 1 Litre per 1000 Kms and that seems to be in accordance with the EU Directive which lays down the labelling requirements etc.

On that basis then Michelin seems to be indicating that their tires are good for only 80,000 Kms or 50,000 miles! Not that mine ever lasted that long due to punctures. :mad1:

Continental also say here: Continental Tyres - Why winter tyres? (http://www.continental-tyres.co.uk/www/tyres_uk_en/themes/van-tyres/winter-tyres/why-winter-tyres.html)

That would surely depend on the climate where you do most of your driving.

Tezza33
18-11-2013, 15:53
I have Michelin Agilis tyres on my van, M+S rated.

The biggest advantage I have found is that they are much better on wet grass and mud than the previous Michelin XC Camping tyres. They truly were atrocious tyres.I have the Michelin XC Camping tyres but only because they were fitted from new, slightest bit of wet grass and it is like driving on ice, I can get Hankook RW06 (http://www.tyres-pneus-online.co.uk/car-tyres-HANKOOK/WINTER,RW06/215,70,R15,109,R,8-PR.html) Winter tyres for 82.78 (without fitting) which is a good price for those, I still have trade contacts but they can't match online prices these days, still searching for Nokian Winter tyres though

m30
18-11-2013, 16:32
I agree with your conclusion if your figures are correct, but can you please advise me where you got them from, i.e., 6 litres over 625 miles?



Can you please give me more information, such as make, spec., and where you bought them?

TIA

I fit a pair of these ready for our ski trip in December, cant vouch for there performance on snow yet, but you pay your money and take your choice.

WINTER TYRE Goodride SW612 215/70 R15C 109/107R 8PR | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WINTER-TYRE-Goodride-SW612-215-70-R15C-109-107R-8PR-/151158473929?pt=UK_Cars_Tyres_RL&hash=item2331bf44c9)

As for the rating system I quoted figures from here

Closer Look at the EU Tyre Label | Blackcircles.com (http://www.blackcircles.com/general/tyre-labelling/tyre-label)

Stu

Seannachie
18-11-2013, 17:13
Thanks fr that info, Stu.

:)

exwindsurfer
18-11-2013, 17:18
Where did you get them from?, they are the size on my Hymer but I cannot find them anywhere

I bought them from a tyre place in lockerbie look at nokian tyres on the net . Mind i did buy them in july lol came out at 420 quid for 4 .

Tezza33
18-11-2013, 17:37
I bought them from a tyre place in lockerbie look at nokian tyres on the net . Mind i did buy them in july lol came out at 420 quid for 4 .Just found them from the same Ebayer in the link from m30 a couple of posts above, I searched all my usual places without any result
thanks

iveco4x4
18-11-2013, 19:13
Tyres are your interface to the ground. Every offroader knows that tyres can make the biggest difference to the capability of a vehicle, theres no tyre that does everything well or works in every type of condition

In summer conditions , most will be fine, but winter is different. Ive noticed my front tyres are struggling with the damp colder weather and they are both in good condition.

For your car, don't buy the 4mm ones from ebay cos while legal they are taken off in germany cos winter tyres need more tread so you'll probably waste your money.

Rich

mark61
18-11-2013, 19:26
Tyres are your interface to the ground. Every offroader knows that tyres can make the biggest difference to the capability of a vehicle, theres no tyre that does everything well or works in every type of condition

In summer conditions , most will be fine, but winter is different. Ive noticed my front tyres are struggling with the damp colder weather and they are both in good condition.

For your car, don't buy the 4mm ones from ebay cos while legal they are taken off in germany cos winter tyres need more tread so you'll probably waste your money.

Rich

Very true, tyres, tyres, tyres, and then lockers. lol :)

m1cxf
19-11-2013, 21:38
I have just been out in my van on the !normal" tyres and found the ride quite harsh, I then noticed the temperature was around 5. When I got home I got my winter tyres and wheels swapped over and found the same journey much smoother, mainly because the tyres are more suited to the cold. They are not a gimmick, They do work, the other winter my pal could not get across his yard in his Dihatsu Fourtrak which had newish all terrain tyres. My Vito (rear wheel drive) with Continental winter tyres went places he couldn't. They make a huge difference to braking and handling too. I am very fortunate that I have a place to store them so having a second set of wheels isn't a problem.

ricc
20-11-2013, 08:22
I have just been out in my van on the !normal" tyres and found the ride quite harsh, I then noticed the temperature was around 5. When I got home I got my winter tyres and wheels swapped over and found the same journey much smoother, mainly because the tyres are more suited to the cold. They are not a gimmick, They do work, the other winter my pal could not get across his yard in his Dihatsu Fourtrak which had newish all terrain tyres. My Vito (rear wheel drive) with Continental winter tyres went places he couldn't. They make a huge difference to braking and handling too. I am very fortunate that I have a place to store them so having a second set of wheels isn't a problem.




think that proves the most important bit is the nut behind the wheel

i had a fourtrak for about 10 years, along side a selection of large vans, theres no way a 2wd van will go where a fourtrak wont, however fancy the rubber on the van

mark61
20-11-2013, 08:58
think that proves the most important bit is the nut behind the wheel

i had a fourtrak for about 10 years, along side a selection of large vans, theres no way a 2wd van will go where a fourtrak wont, however fancy the rubber on the van

Perhaps the Fourtrack never engaged 4 wheel drive. lol :)

mark61
20-11-2013, 10:50
LOL. Very true.

I visited Chatsworth House back in the 90's. It was a gorgeous day, the main car park was full and they were guiding people to overflow car parks, all on grass.
I told the parking man, I'm happy to park there, but who will get me out if it rains. " Fair enough" he said, and allowed me to park in the coach area.

Well, it did rain, hammered it down. I have never seen such a mess, little hatchbacks, Renault Clios etc, driving away with little problem, big Beemers and Merc's no chance, and then there were a load of 4x4's stuck, they had no idea how to select 4 wheel drive. Of course all the permanent 4x4's and those that knew how to engage 4 wheel drive pulled away with no problem at all.

CrappyVanButFun
21-11-2013, 20:58
Hi I just dropped a bit of a clanger as I got 205/65 99T extra loads as a tyre place chap said I needed XL,s but turns out 94 is the recommended for my Peugeot Expert and a friend thinks the 99 T XL,s will be far too hard and make it a very poor ride especially in bumpy North Yorkshire.

Theres not much weight in my van. Not here yet as from Pneus Kuhmo I-Zen KW23 winters 99T XL.

Maybe should sell them on for less and buy some 94 weighted ones.

Best Mark.

Tezza33
21-11-2013, 21:59
I think if 94 is the recommendation it will the minimum recommendation, it doesn't mean they are not suitable so I would go on their website and ask questions, personally because you will probably be heavier most of the time than a 'normal Expert' I would try them before I sold them on especially if it meant losing money :scared:, put the PSI on the minimum recommended for your vehicle to start with and experiment higher

mark61
21-11-2013, 22:03
What do the specs say for axle loads then?
Try them out, may not notice any/much difference.

CrappyVanButFun
22-11-2013, 19:43
Hi well I talked to the tyre supplier I can exchange the 2 205/65r15`s for 4 195/65r15,s 95T XL,s plus a bit more as the 195,s are a lot cheaper.

The 195,s would likely be better in the snow, but are they ok on a 205 rim. I think you may be able to go up to 215 or down to 195, so hoping 195 will be ok.

Anyone had any experiance of going down 10mm width wise. Does it maybe wear the tread edges more.

Still could,nt get any proper info off peugeot yet. They don`t list the weight ratios etc.

Best Mark.

mark61
22-11-2013, 19:53
Your VIN plate may have all the details, ie axle weights.

What age and model is the Expert, info must be out there somewhere.

Just checked your first post so have year. :)
I assume there are different models according to GVW? No expert on Experts though. ;)

CrappyVanButFun
27-11-2013, 19:45
Hi thanks for the help and advice and thoughts etc.

I had a good old feel of a loose winter continental ts850 205/65R15 today and it felt very, very soft, especially on the tyres walls.

Can`t help thinking a 195/65 R15 95T XL might be far far better especially if staying on all year.

Its a 6.5 J rim so I think 195 will be OK and not wear more etc.

Anyone tried these options at all ?

Anyone put any winters on recently and any thoughts etc.

Have I got this right a 95T XL will be a bit stiffer.

Thanks etc Mark.

iveco4x4
27-11-2013, 20:56
think that proves the most important bit is the nut behind the wheel

i had a fourtrak for about 10 years, along side a selection of large vans, theres no way a 2wd van will go where a fourtrak wont, however fancy the rubber on the van

disagree - a 4x2 van with a locking rear diff could quite easily do it to most 4x4's if they only use open diffs

Cross axling a 4x4 is always a pain and makes you look quite silly, hence the detriot locker in my old landy, the limited slip in the isuzu 4x4 pickup and front and rear difflocks in the camper

Rich

mark61
27-11-2013, 22:08
disagree - a 4x2 van with a locking rear diff could quite easily do it to most 4x4's if they only use open diffs

Cross axling a 4x4 is always a pain and makes you look quite silly, hence the detriot locker in my old landy, the limited slip in the isuzu 4x4 pickup and front and rear difflocks in the camper

Rich

Good challenge, identical tyres & surface. :)

Touringtheworld
27-11-2013, 22:29
Had winter tyres fitted on my Sprinter today. Going around Europe including Germany from Monday for 14/15 days

Garaged the alloys with the regular tyres on.

I don't know if I am lucky or unfortunate. On the inside edge of the rear tyre which came off was a piece of flint which has cut its way deep into the tread, I don't think I would have seen it. The tyre fitter spotted it when the wheel came off. Well that's something to look forward too in the spring.

At 60mph on the A1 might have seen me on the side of the road.

iveco4x4
28-11-2013, 19:20
Good challenge, identical tyres & surface. :)



Someone at the silk route club has just bought a new Iveco but has gone for the 4x2 with locking diff should get him most places you can get a 7 tonne van and get him out of trouble

Rich

mark61
28-11-2013, 19:39
A good option to select. Well done to Iveco for still having a locker as an option, rather then kidding people that traction control will do the job.


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