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Tow Itch
20-11-2013, 10:54
Hello all not been on here for a while as I've been trying to be more focused doing things that I need to do rather than spending time on forums. Not sure it's been successful.

For you high level gas users the answer has always been user refillable cylinders, generally GAS-IT or Gaslow. I don't have facilities for a tethered bottle so It's not been possible for me.
Safefill provided a non tethered bottle with a guaranteed number of places that would refill it. Refilling/Retailers | Safefill (http://www.safefill.co.uk/refilling-retailers.html) I think that buyers have basic fears about buying a non metal bottle, also possibly cautious in case the distribution system collapsed and they were left with cylinders they couldn't refill. Anyway it now appears that Gaslow have done an about face and launched a direct fill cylinder. Direct Fill Cylinders - Gaslow Direct (http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Categories/Cylinders) and a corresponding directory of fill sites.
I've tried to send an email to Gaslow asking if there has been a change from the position expressed in http://www.uklpg.org/uploads/DOC4E7749E87E660.pdf or if they had now started to look at uklpg as a trade group rather than an independent arbiter of best practice. There is also a HSE statement referred to in the uklpg link Gaslow were asked about that. Alas no reply yet.
If your gas use is other than just motorhome or caravan direct fill is a great advantage. The cylinder can be used on your patio heater or you gas BBQ and particularly if you have a need for portable electric power and used a gas converted generator. I did comment to a user on another forum that because of the pressure of propane it wasn't the best of ideas to use his safefill cylinder in his cabinet heater. Though not law the convention is that we use butane indoors within the UK http://www.uklpg.org/uploads/DOC4D42E56099B61.pdf

Of course with the above there is a large initial investment. It would be nice for us if smaller cylinders were more economically priced. I have found this site on eBay home delivery of gas with no exchange required most cylinders are competitively priced but the 6Kg propane is only £12.99 Admittedly that is about 50p to 30p more expensive per litre than autogas but it's a damn sight better than the £20.00 to £24.00 I've seen charged for Calor Gas where an exchange is required too.

D'oh didn't provide a link for the eBay site! 6Kg Propane Gas Cylinder - Screw Fit | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6Kg-Propane-Gas-Cylinder-Screw-Fit-/261324079086?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item3cd820ffee)

Mike Young
20-11-2013, 12:58
Had a look at their website and found these terms and conditions,

5. Cylinders
(a) Cylinders may be used only as a container for gas and may not be sold, exchanged (other than the purposes of this Agreement), hired, assigned, transferred, mortgaged, lent, abandoned, nor damaged, defaced, decanted, filled or tampered with.
(b) Cylinders remain the property of the owners agent at all times and may only be refilled by the supplying agent.
(c) In the case of willful damage or breach of this Agreement, the owner or its agent may repossess cylinders immediately and the customer irrevocably authorises the owner or its agent to enter on to the customerís property for these purposes in the event of any termination of contract.
(d) The owner or its agent may charge the customer the cylinder charge equal to the amount of £29.99 + vat per cylinder for loss of use of cylinders in the event of loss or damage to the cylinders but this charge will not give the customer any rights in the cylinders.
(e) The owner and or its agent will comply with all statutory and appropriate codes of practice requirements in respect of cylinders but this shall not mean that the owner has any obligation to maintain in good condition cylinders that are in the customerís possession.
(f) The owner will make the appropriate cylinder charge for the full replacement value of the cylinders for any unreturned cylinders.
(g) The cylinders supplied by the owner are temporarily loaned to the customer on the basis of a regular re-order of refill gas. The owner has the right to charge the customer a deposit of £29.95 + vat on each cylinder supplied if the customer does not make a re-order of refill gas for a minimum period of 2 months from their last order date.

Presumably the purchaser would need to make sure they can/will use enough gas to make this worthwhile.

john t
20-11-2013, 14:19
Think we pay approx £22 for a 6kg lpg swap over per cylinder at mo for our m/home.!

jt

Mike Young
21-11-2013, 07:43
My thoughts precisely

philstoke
21-11-2013, 09:13
D'oh didn't provide a link for the eBay site! 6Kg Propane Gas Cylinder - Screw Fit | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6Kg-Propane-Gas-Cylinder-Screw-Fit-/261324079086?pt=UK_BOI_Restaurant_RL&hash=item3cd820ffee)

This seems very good, no initial cylinder charge to pay, can't see any catches

Smaug
21-11-2013, 09:20
Not really. They are taking a risk by supplying you with a cylinder without you paying a deposit on the assumption that you will re-order frequently. If you do not re-order in two months then you will be charged the usual cylinder deposit fee. Crafty way of making the price look better than it is, but not unfair - in fact brilliant for someone who uses a lot of gas in small cylinders. Good if you have a propane space heater in your workshop, or use mobile propane fires to heat a house, shed or office.

Mike Young
21-11-2013, 10:37
Not really. They are taking a risk by supplying you with a cylinder without you paying a deposit on the assumption that you will re-order frequently. If you do not re-order in two months then you will be charged the usual cylinder deposit fee. Crafty way of making the price look better than it is, but not unfair - in fact brilliant for someone who uses a lot of gas in small cylinders. Good if you have a propane space heater in your workshop, or use mobile propane fires to heat a house, shed or office.

Yes I see your point, however, if someone bought this item without checking the T&C'S they could easily get caught out and end up paying £12.50 + £29.95 +vat....well over £40 ! and much more than the Calor price. (I get my calor refills for £20)

I nearly went for it, but an alarm bell in my head said check the T&c's which I must admit I don't always do. Good job I did, because I can't always say I'll need a refill every two months.

lebesset
21-11-2013, 10:49
how do they know if you refill every 2 months ?
do you pay the refilling station or what ?
why does the advert show a standard flogas bottle ?

Smaug
21-11-2013, 10:54
how do they know if you refill every 2 months ?
do you pay the refilling station or what ?
why does the advert show a standard flogas bottle ?

They mean swop for a full bottle with them

It isn't a self refillable bottle

I suspect that is who they buy the bottles & gas off to retail

Smaug
21-11-2013, 11:19
That makes sense, especially as the UK had a large Town gas distribution network in place from the local Victorian Gasworks that made it relatively easy to pipe natural gas to many thousands of existing households once it came on line from the North Sea. I don't know, but I doubt that many French homes had gas piped to them directly, tho clearly some of the large towns may have, in addition, their access to North Sea gas was comparatively limited.

It isn't hard to pick up old bottles for peanuts in the UK if you wish to avoid paying the deposit. I haven't payed a deposit on a gas bottle since 1972 when I wanted a second bottle on a new caravan. I too have a collection of 6kg, 3.5kg, 13kg, 11kg & 47kg bottles for butane & propane bottles for a selection of uses.

Tow Itch
22-11-2013, 13:37
No I didn't read the terms and conditions rather poor of me.
Then again the terms and conditions aren't on the eBay site so if one bought from eBay you couldn't be subject to those terms and conditions.
The possible charge is greater than the cost of the item bought and isn't featured in the advert or sales process for any item. I would be buying with a credit card and challenging any further attempt to bill.
Somewhat incensed by this I've just phoned the company and the sales person stated. "No we don't intend to charge but there is a reason for the term" I suggested that they need to tidy the wording up. Also they have promised to send me an email in explanation.
2 months between ordering was a bit onerous as well.

The bottles are labelled as FLO GAS. FLO GAS also own Mac Gas which in tern as bought the BP Gas operation. I previously had mentioned Gas Cylinders UK for anyone passing through the North West they are now trading through their welding gasses website 6kg Propane Cylinder (Screw Regulator) - Welding Gases - The UK's Rental Free Supplier (http://www.weldinggases.co.uk/index.php?_a=product&product_id=38) they too have been offering bottles without deposit for a period of time. I presume FLO GAS/Mac Gas are trying to increase their market share. Though this type of offer is not available at all of their outlets. Bolton Bottle Gas wouldn't even accept a 13Kg butane bottle as a swap when buying propane.


I've also had an email back from Gaslow re there Direct Fill bottles but need a second email back to dot i's and cross t's before I post.


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