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Tezza
25-11-2013, 00:33
Just seen these on ebay Leaving Facebook... (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fitm%2Fautoga s-lpg-bottle-filling-adapter-camper-boat-caravan-%2F271324411952%3Fpt%3DUK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Othe r_Vehicle_Parts_Accessories_ET%26hash%3Ditem3f2c31 f830&h=9AQHy9Sts) ...can somebody tell me about these please? Do they just go on to a calor gas propane bottle and then you can refill an ordinary bottle. Does anybody use these.

Firefox
25-11-2013, 00:44
Yes they just go on a normal bottle.

I use them all the time. Why get ripped off 24 for an exchange cylinder when you can buy the gas for 9 ?

Be aware of 3 things

(a) It's against the terms of the contract with the cylinder supplier to fill it yourself.

(b) The propane suppliers have lobbied the garages to prohibit people filling cylinders, nominally on safety grounds, but actually to try to preserve their greedy business of exchange cylinders.

(c) You must be very careful not to brim fill the cylinder. Only fill with 12 litres for example on a 6kg cylinder. Whatever the cylinder capacity in kg, it is twice that in litres. You must watch the pump gauge carefully and release the button before.

(Make sure bottle is empty first by opening the valve to the atmosphere before filling)

Tezza
25-11-2013, 00:53
Yes they just go on a normal bottle.

I use them all the time. Why get ripped off 24 for an exchange cylinder when you can buy the gas for 9 ?

Be aware of 3 things

(a) It's against the terms of the contract with the cylinder supplier to fill it yourself.

(b) The propane suppliers have lobbied the garages to prohibit people filling cylinders, nominally on safety grounds, but actually to try to preserve their greedy business of exchange cylinders.

(c) You must be very careful not to brim fill the cylinder. Only fill with 12 litres for example on a 6kg cylinder. Whatever the cylinder capacity in kg, it is twice that in litres. You must watch the pump gauge carefully and release the button before.

I just looked at it again...it says Autogas....will that work on a 6kg calor gas propane bottle?. sorry for my ignorance

zipnolan
25-11-2013, 06:51
I just looked at it again...it says Autogas....will that work on a 6kg calor gas propane bottle?. sorry for my ignorance

Propane and auto gas is the same, I use one of these all the time and the Euro adaptors when in Germany, never a problem, yes some petrol stations stop you from refilling but I use my local Morrison's and there's never a problem. Tip : when refilling watch the meter clock turning and the moment it starts to slow then cease refilling, no doubt the school of health n safety will tell you otherwise but as long as your careful there's no problem refilling your self.

Firefox
25-11-2013, 10:17
In the UK Autogas is 100% propane. Only when you go further south into Europe do they add more and more Butane, but then you'd need different adapters for those countries anyway. I would fill out of sight of the pump attendant eg inside the back doors of the van, unless you have an arrangement with the garage. They may not authorise the fill otherwise.

Airecraft
25-11-2013, 10:44
+1 for what Firefox and Zipnolan have said. Only thing to add is never fill a cylinder with one of these unless it is completely empty, so you are certain there is no more than 12L of LPG in it.

vindiboy
25-11-2013, 11:34
You are playing with FIRE here.

lebesset
25-11-2013, 13:25
You are playing with FIRE here.


you are only doing what the gas bottle vendors like Calor do thousands of times everyday ; gas bottles are made to be refilled

jeffmossy
25-11-2013, 13:51
You are playing with FIRE here.

You are only playing with fire if you dont listen to advice and this thread is asking about advice,and I can see at least 4 members warning about the bad points,but the good points are half price gas and money better in your pocket than gas suppliers pocket.I have used one of these for 2 years and it has payed for itself 10 times over,so use it as per instructions and you wont regret buying one

vindiboy
25-11-2013, 13:54
you are only doing what the gas bottle vendors like Calor do thousands of times everyday ; gas bottles are made to be refilled

Of course they are BUT NOT by enthusiastic amateurs, there are many safety concerns with filling with this adaptor , that is why it has to be done out of site of the attendant, behind bushes , in the back of your van or whatever, carry on I don't care, it is your neck .

Tony Lee
25-11-2013, 16:30
Propane and auto gas is the same, I use one of these all the time and the Euro adaptors when in Germany, never a problem, yes some petrol stations stop you from refilling but I use my local Morrison's and there's never a problem. Tip : when refilling watch the meter clock turning and the moment it starts to slow then cease refilling, no doubt the school of health n safety will tell you otherwise but as long as your careful there's no problem refilling your self.

Very dangerous advice given through sheer ignorance of the practicalities involved.

Tony Lee
25-11-2013, 16:35
you are only doing what the gas bottle vendors like Calor do thousands of times everyday ; gas bottles are made to be refilled

Not true!!!

If you did refill using the same procedures as do Calor then there would be less of a safety risk, but so far only one member has given correct advice and even then I don't think he gave the complete list of correct procedure and that had to be added by another poster. Problem is there were also posts that gave very dangerous advice and somebody reading this post who doesn't have the requisite knowledge or experience may not know which is which

m30
25-11-2013, 16:37
I bought one of these a couple of years back and used it a few times until the local filling station stopped me using it, I now have a Gas-it cylinder. There are actually 2 different issues with filling them that the filling stations dont like/will use against you. The first is the obvious one that you are filling a bottle without any safety blow off system if you over fill, this can of coarse be helped if you take care as mentioned earlier, that the cylinder is completely empty and you only fill to 80%. The second point is why companies like Gas-it dont sell these fittings, in that its not correct to carry a gas bottle loose in your vehicle, if your cylinder is secured in your vented gas locker, then thats one less thing for them to pull you up on. If I were going down this road again, I'd be fitting an external remote filler then there is no need to open the locker, and unless they come out of their warm shop/office to look they wont know any different to a "genuine" refillable set up.

Stu

Firefox
25-11-2013, 16:37
I'd refill by volume (as relates to weight) and then you can check the weight afterwards on some scales. You need to leave 20% room for expansion which is achieved only filling the weight of gas that the bottle is plated for. If you know the weight of the bottle empty, it's an easy job to make sure you haven't over filled by just adding your 6kg (or whatever) to the empty bottle weight and making sure the combined weight isn't over that figure. If it is, by some chance, you can let some gas off.

It really isn't rocket science, it just needs care and attention.

vindiboy
25-11-2013, 16:48
I'd refill by volume (as relates to weight) and then you can check the weight afterwards on some scales. You need to leave 20% room for expansion which is achieved only filling the weight of gas that the bottle is plated for. If you know the weight of the bottle empty, it's an easy job to make sure you haven't over filled by just adding your 6kg (or whatever) to the empty bottle weight and making sure the combined weight isn't over that figure. If it is, by some chance, you can let some gas off.

It really isn't rocket science, it just needs care and attention. More great advice, just let some gas off, let it off where ? into the atmosphere , into your neighbors garden , into your bathroom, the mind boggles.

hextal
25-11-2013, 16:51
Oooof - this one sounds pretty iffy to me.

It's fair enough to take a risk yourself but please make sure that in doing so you don't put other people's lives in danger in the process.

These things are always 'ok' until one day they become a bit less 'ok' in quite a spectacular manner.

Firefox
25-11-2013, 17:02
More great advice, just let some gas off, let it off where ? into the atmosphere , into your neighbors garden , into your bathroom, the mind boggles

Yes, just let it off into the atmosphere (outside). We're only talking about 0.2 - 0.3 kg at the most.

Your motorhome releases 12 kg of CO2 per gallon alone, let alone Kgs of NO2, NO3, CO, particulates and unburnt flammable hydrocarbons in various concentrations.

I trust you don't run your motorhome anywhere near anybody's garden, and make sure you always bottle up your exhaust gas for safe disposal, you naughty vindiboy :lol-053:

angelaa
25-11-2013, 17:20
We are quite keen to try one of these adapters. Has anyone had any problems using them, or heard of anybody having problems ?

Bigpeetee
25-11-2013, 17:25
As mentioned before, there have been fires in both motorhomes and caravans caused by bottles refilled in this way. The insurance is null & void.

Whilst I'm happy to save money AND I'm technically competent to undertake refilling of a Calor type bottle, is it worth the risk??

Of course I KNOW that I'm competent, but am I?? Just because people "get away" with something time and time again doesn't mean it's OK to do.

That's why I fitted as Gas-It system.

Asto
25-11-2013, 17:37
As mentioned before, there have been fires in both motorhomes and caravans caused by bottles refilled in this way. The insurance is null & void.

Whilst I'm happy to save money AND I'm technically competent to undertake refilling of a Calor type bottle, is it worth the risk??

Of course I KNOW that I'm competent, but am I?? Just because people "get away" with something time and time again doesn't mean it's OK to do.

That's why I fitted as Gas-It system.

Have there? Links please?

There are always going to be fires in confined places when flammable gases are present, but I would love to see your evidence of the fires being down to self refilled bottles.

Siimplyloco
25-11-2013, 17:43
Whilst it is easy to post facetious comments about other people's safety concerns, I once watched a gentleman in Pakistan re-filling leaky bottles whilst dragging on a cigarette. I made haste backwards!
Don't forget that there are some equally daft people in the UK!
John

Firefox
25-11-2013, 17:48
Yes, please post the links of where there have been explosions in motorhomes due to overfilling of bottles . BLEVE is very rare anyway, even rarer I would imagine when the bottle is out of the direct sun. But I'm willing to be enlightened if you post the links and provide the provenance.

Siimplyloco
25-11-2013, 18:01
Yes, please post the links of where there have been explosions in motorhomes due to overfilling of bottles . BLEVE is very rare anyway, even rarer I would imagine when the bottle is out of the direct sun. But I'm willing to be enlightened if you post the links and provide the provenance.

Perhaps the absence of gas explosions on garage forecourts is due to the specialised equipment in use and the stringent safety measures in force? I'll stick with the new Gaslow bottle!
John

Firefox
25-11-2013, 18:06
I was wondering about explosions in motorhomes due to BLEVE from overfilled bottles as referred to by the previous poster. Not explosions on garage forecourts which would be in a different category.

Siimplyloco
25-11-2013, 18:08
I was wondering about explosions in motorhomes due to BLEVE from overfilled bottles as referred to by the previous poster. Not explosions on garage forecourts which would be in a different category.

Interesting thread, but as I don't know much about refilling gas bottles I'll shut up!
John

Asto
25-11-2013, 18:21
Interesting thread, but as I don't know much about refilling gas bottles I'll shut up!
John

It shows. ;) Quite honestly it is very simple, everybody gets the hang of it after a few small burnoffs!:danger:

Tezza33
25-11-2013, 18:25
Unless you told the Insurance Company I can't see how they would know, in the mid 90's I fitted a bulk tank which came off a car, to make it vapour take off the practice was to remove the valve and carefully drill the pick up pipe at the top, dangerous practice we knew but a lot of people did it but if I suggested doing it now on here I would be quite rightly slated.
After the tank was fitted it was filled at a local LPG converter who filled converted cars, the first time you went he inspected everything before he filled it then he was happy, as I got to know him he told me to bring my empty bottles in and he would fill them, he always made sure the bottle was empty then put in a little bit less than the volume it would take, 20 litres instead of 22 litres to err on the side of caution, would I do it today?, no I don't think I would because it doesn't cost a lot to fit gaslow bottles or similar so I fitted a bulk tank again but this time bought a 'proper' one, I don't think it is an unsafe practice to fill bottles if you know what you are doing but neither is servicing your brakes.:angel:

nomad-col
25-11-2013, 18:45
I have never liked the idea of filling cylinders in this way. But the owner of the GPL station at Bouliqueme in Portugal told me that the way of checking whether a cylinder is overfilled is to crack open the tap on the top and if you can see the vapour coming out then its too full and if you cannot see what's coming out then its ok (he demonstrated it for me well away from anything that could have caused an explosion).
Colin

Firefox
25-11-2013, 18:59
Good tip - but it is really impossible to overfill if you carefully fill by volume, unless the pump calibration is wildly, wildly out. Even then one can check by weight... or I guess using your method. I would prefer myself to check by weight though, I'd feel happier with that method.

vindiboy
25-11-2013, 19:08
Yes, just let it off into the atmosphere (outside). We're only talking about 0.2 - 0.3 kg at the most.

Your motorhome releases 12 kg of CO2 per gallon alone, let alone Kgs of NO2, NO3, CO, particulates and unburnt flammable hydrocarbons in various concentrations.

I trust you don't run your motorhome anywhere near anybody's garden, and make sure you always bottle up your exhaust gas for safe disposal, you naughty vindiboy :lol-053: Rule no 1. Beware of Experts spouting numbers and equations LOL

Siimplyloco
25-11-2013, 19:18
Good tip - but it is really impossible to overfill if you carefully fill by volume, unless the pump calibration is wildly, wildly out. Even then one can check by weight... or I guess using your method. I would prefer myself to check by weight though, I'd feel happier with that method.

How do you check by weight on the garage forecourt? Do you carry the bathroom scales or a fishing spring balance? And I'm not being facetious....
John

Tbear
25-11-2013, 19:33
You work out the maximum that you can safely put in. Preferable into an empty cylinder. You carefully meter a little bit less in. Then you check afterwards that you have not exceeded the maximum amount. If you have then your only option is to very carefully, outside vent a little.

Hardly putting petrol on a bonfire

Richard

Firefox
25-11-2013, 19:38
How do you check by weight on the garage forecourt? Do you carry the bathroom scales or a fishing spring balance? And I'm not being facetious....
John

I've got some bathroom scales in the van. I don't check there and then, probably later that day. It's not going to go pop if it's slightly overfilled. I've always found the garage pumps to be spot on, in terms of weight anyway.

Firefox
25-11-2013, 19:41
Rule no 1. Beware of Experts spouting numbers and equations LOL

Rule number 0, beware even more of clueless people spouting ;)

dysdera
25-11-2013, 20:18
Before you purchase this, I suggest you search for a video of a guy who filled a cylinder using one of these in the back of a pick-up truck. I think it was in Iran or somewhere like that. The bottle exploded and the ferocity of the explosion was terrifying, so much so I purchased a gas-low kit instead.

Siimplyloco
25-11-2013, 20:21
Before you purchase this, I suggest you search for a video of a guy who filled a cylinder using one of these in the back of a pick-up truck. I think it was in Iran or somewhere like that. The bottle exploded and the ferocity of the explosion was terrifying, so much so I purchased a gas-low kit instead.

It might have been the same fella I saw in Pakistan.....
John

m30
25-11-2013, 20:45
A "proper" refillable gas cylinder or tank has a blow off valve to relive excess pressure. Where does this blow of valve vent the excess gas to? the atmosphere via a pipe to the underside of the car, or in the case of a motorhome into the gas locker and out of the vent. I had a Volvo with an LPG conversion, and that would regularly vent off gas after you filled the tank, many times when you were in the shop paying for the gas. My Gas-it bottle will do the same no doubt on a warm day. The pump at the filling station will only fill the bottle or tank to a certain pressure then when the pressure in the tank or bottle reaches the preset pressure the valve in the filler neck closes and thats your lot. Has anyone ever tried to overfill a normal calor bottle? can you overfill a bottle, or will the pump shut of automatically anyway?

Tezza
25-11-2013, 21:48
Thank you for the information. i think i will give it a miss and save up for the proper jobby. ...thank you


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