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View Full Version : Be warned - A frames in Spain



kenspain
29-11-2013, 13:26
I was not going to post this on here because I have seen to many bad threads so this is up to you if you don't take this advice .

On Tuesday a Dutch motorhome was stopped out side Valencia he was towing a car on an A frame he was told in Spanish that this was not allowed in Spain. as this man could not speak Spanish only Dutch and English so he said, they called an officer in that spoke English. He was told to unhook the car he was only going to get a warning about this no more, but the man got very angry and started waving papers about and refused to unhook the car so he was asked to wait 25 minuets They called a truck and were going to in pound his motor, now instead of doing what he was asked by the first officer that stopped him,he gave him a 500 euro on the spot fine and he had to pay 95 euros for the tow truck. After he paid my son asked him why he had argued with the first officer because he was only going to warn him this time he then showed him the paper that came with that A frame saying that it was approved for any country in the E,U So it might be ok in your country to use these in Spain it still has not been approved. Safe travel



PS quick one for Mr n brown weather better sun out getting warmer :D:D:D:D

Sharon the Cat
29-11-2013, 13:29
Someone at a show told us that it was a hefty on the spot fine if you used one in Poland.

n brown
29-11-2013, 13:36
I was not going to post this on here because I have seen to many bad threads so this is up to you if you don't take this advice .

On Tuesday a Dutch motorhome was stopped out side Valencia he was towing a car on an A frame he was told in Spanish that this was not allowed in Spain. as this man could not speak Spanish only Dutch and English so he said, they called an officer in that spoke English. He was told to unhook the car he was only going to get a warning about this no more, but the man got very angry and started waving papers about and refused to unhook the car so he was asked to wait 25 minuets They called a truck and were going to in pound his motor, now instead of doing what he was asked by the first officer that stopped him,he gave him a 500 euro on the spot fine and he had to pay 95 euros for the tow truck. After he paid my son asked him why he had argued with the first officer because he was only going to warn him this time he then showed him the paper that came with that A frame saying that it was approved for any country in the E,U So it might be ok in your country to use these in Spain it still has not been approved. Safe travel



PS quick one for Mr n brown weather better sun out getting warmer :D:D:D:D in that case ,I bought you a fleece onesie for xmas,but as you won't need it i'll give it to a tramp .feliz navidad !

madbluemad
29-11-2013, 13:51
Hello Ken. Almost all of the companies who fit A frames dish out this interpretation of EU Law. It's not worth the paper it's written on. I wonder whether they'd be so quick to pay the fines and compensate for the bother caused.

kenspain
29-11-2013, 14:01
Hello Ken. Almost all of the companies who fit A frames dish out this interpretation of EU Law. It's not worth the paper it's written on. I wonder whether they'd be so quick to pay the fines and compensate for the bother caused.

I can never see that happing as long as they sale the stuff that's all they care.

landyrubbertramp
29-11-2013, 15:29
Perhaps Simone should inform towtal who think if u attach one of thiers it's legal to do almost anything including bank robbery

landyrubbertramp
29-11-2013, 15:31
Tongue in cheek but u get my meaning ?

runnach
29-11-2013, 15:50
Can I ask, what is the issue with type of towing, compared with car on trailer, is it a braking issue?

Thanks in advance....

Tco
29-11-2013, 15:59
Can I ask, what is the issue with type of towing, compared with car on trailer, is it a braking issue?

Thanks in advance....

It may be the braking issue, but it could also be a vehicle control issue. From observation, it seems it is impossible to reverves an A-Frame unit. The ones I have seen (not recently) do not have the back up brake override that towed caravans have. Also, how on earth would you steer the thing?

Give me a trailer every time. The overall length is not increased by the use of a trailer over an A-Frame and you can actually steer them in reverse. The car does not need to be modified, so therefore can be changed if necessary without any work.

mark61
29-11-2013, 16:06
Can I ask, what is the issue with type of towing, compared with car on trailer, is it a braking issue?

Thanks in advance....

Who knows, it's a right mess. Something to do with the towed car not meeting trailer regulations, and according to the law, a car on an A frame is a trailer.


Just found this, seems even the DoT aren't sure either. :)

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_200824.pdf

dr dave
29-11-2013, 16:27
Apparently in Spain you are not allowed to tow a car on its own wheels except in the event of an emergency IE: after and accident if you are a recovery service. So its not a compliance issue the act of towing one vehicle with another is outlawed not the mechanism you tow it with. Although i would not like to be waving a scruffy photocopied bit of paper from the 'A' frame maker under a Spanish police officers nose telling him he is wrong and Tow-it-Pull-It-And-Yank-It is right that's asking for trouble.

kenspain
29-11-2013, 16:40
Perhaps Simone should inform towtal who think if u attach one of thiers it's legal to do almost anything including bank robbery

Lee I had a scooter rack from them and could not get it passed to use over here when I gave to a friend it broke the 2nd time he use it and I paid half to get his bike repaired,

maxi77
29-11-2013, 17:33
A lot of countries have problems complying with EU law, and the UK can be as bad as others, basically if it is legal in one EU country it should be legal in all, that is exactly what the single market means. Conventional towing does not comply equally here in Portugal where any vehicle which cannot proceed on it's own power must be carried on a truck, even so caravans, trailers etc are legal though they must be registered and have their own number plates. The EU do have a system where citizens can complain about unfair imposition of fines etc under EU law. Difficult area and not unique, most like me do their research and avoid confrontation especially with armed plods

Tezza33
29-11-2013, 17:45
Apparently in Spain you are not allowed to tow a car on its own wheels except in the event of an emergency IE: after and accident if you are a recovery service. So its not a compliance issue the act of towing one vehicle with another is outlawed not the mechanism you tow it with. Although i would not like to be waving a scruffy photocopied bit of paper from the 'A' frame maker under a Spanish police officers nose telling him he is wrong and Tow-it-Pull-It-And-Yank-It is right that's asking for trouble.I cannot understand anybody arguing with a Policeman who can give out an on the spot fine, they are just doing their job so speak to them nice, it usually works and I do that in this Country as well, I was stopped years ago in Spain and I kept laughing and joking in French because the young Policeman spoke French but no English, he kept phoning his Station to ask questions because I kept pointing out what was on the bit of paper, after some time he shook my hand and told me to have a good holiday, I would not use one in Spain now because you are correct (to the best of my knowledge), it is down to the fact you cannot tow a broken down car in Spain and if they don't recognise it as a trailer then we have no argument, I believe 'my Country, our rules' so have to accept it is their Country, their rules:rulez:

Touringtheworld
29-11-2013, 18:31
Hi Ken and everybody,

I have our friend Jane staying with me for a couple of days and she lives just outside of Valencia.
Her friends dropped into see them at the end of September and left their tow car with them because they had just been fined 500 euros on the spot for having it on a 'A' frame. (Same waving of a piece of paper - red rag to bull I guess)

Jane wasn't really surprized - her husband had an on the spot 105 euro fine for putting his seatbelt on while moving out of a parking spot and three weeks later another on the spot 80 euro fine for not coming to a complete stop at (you guessed it) a stop sign.

All marginal but no argument with those chaps.


...... would you risk it for a swisskit :-)

Tezza33
29-11-2013, 19:05
They are short of money:rolleyes2:, I lived in South Africa and received a fine for not stopping at a stop sign, we are used to give way signs these days and forget you have to apply the handbrake at a stop sign, it is obvious Spanish Police are instructed to get money from fines and it is a shame we can't hit them where it hurts by boycotting Spain as a Holiday destination, I love France and Germany in the van, they actually like us there in Motorhomes

arto69gl
29-11-2013, 19:10
Why bother get a caravan if you want to tow, we recently hired a car in the Algarve for 20 euro a day, could have got one for less, hardly worth the cost and effort of towing a car all that way

Seannachie
29-11-2013, 19:20
Who knows, it's a right mess. Something to do with the towed car not meeting trailer regulations, and according to the law, a car on an A frame is a trailer.


Just found this, seems even the DoT aren't sure either. :)

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_200824.pdf

Well they should be sure because even the Foreign & Colonial Office know that it's illegal, and I quote from one of their information pages:


Towing a car behind a motor home using an A-frame is illegal in Spain and you will be fined for using one.


The original page is here which has a section on driving regulations in Spain: https://www.gov.uk/living-in-spain

iveco4x4
29-11-2013, 19:40
You just have to remember that laws are different in different countries, yes a very obvious statement but not for some people, despite what youkippers say we are not all under one set of rules

The most obvious one is that its law we drive on the left and in spain its on he right. So why can't they ban campers with cars on A frames. I can see a perfect justification if they cannot be reversed easily and thats been evident by the vids posted on this site

Even in this country you cannot use a towing dolly except for recovery.

Other countries require you to carry enough hi viz jackets for each passenger and have them available.

Check the rules and make sure you are not breaking them

If you do and get caught then be nice to the policeman and play the dumb tourist card :dance:

Tezza33
29-11-2013, 19:44
Why bother get a caravan if you want to tow, we recently hired a car in the Algarve for 20 euro a day, could have got one for less, hardly worth the cost and effort of towing a car all that wayBecause it isn't right for you doesn't mean it isn't right for everybody else, there is no bother towing a car apart from Spain (and one Scandinavian Country, I think it is Denmark) plus points are, you don't notice it behind you, you can reverse them with practice, there is only a couple of MPG difference, most people going away long term would be legal as far as weight is concerned because any excess is in the car, we were in Spain six Months and used the car 4 times at least every week so how much would that cost at 20 euro a day, who wants a caravan with all the restrictions in Europe we don't have, so many reasons to consider it but not in Spain obviously, each to their own

wineciccio
29-11-2013, 20:38
Please note that I'm not an expert on this towing business, but I must post this as I personally witnessed what happened, my friend and I (both in motorhomes) stopped somewhere at a supermarket close to Alicante (this was two years ago) when Tony spotted one of those quads and if my memory serves me right I think it was a raptor, item was being towed by an frame, anyway cut a long story short, when we got back to the campers the other motorhome had gone, so we left but it wasn't long that we stopped again ie, by a large road side, where Tony spotted the motorhome towing the quad plus two Spanish police car, my mate is like a cat very inquisitive, I had no choice but stop as well, apparently he had been stopped not to be fined etc. but for one of the officers wanting to take photos of the quad and asking all sort of questions about it. What I'm trying say is that its the same in France and Italy to some extent. if you find a good kop its not a problem but if you come across one that wants to make a name for himself then God help you, no matter what you are going to tell him or what papers you show him HE WILL HAVE YOUR MONEY.:shag:

CooP
30-11-2013, 06:05
... it is obvious Spanish Police are instructed to get money from fines and it is a shame we can't hit them where it hurts by boycotting Spain as a Holiday destination...

...or we could just study and obey the laws of the countries that we visit :wacko:

El Veterano
30-11-2013, 07:23
Why bother get a caravan if you want to tow, we recently hired a car in the Algarve for 20 euro a day, could have got one for less, hardly worth the cost and effort of towing a car all that way

I'm currently getting offers by email from a car hire company in Spain (Do You Spain Spain car hire with All Inclusive Prices, Spain car hire with 100% Peace of Mind, Car hire in Spain with No Hidden Costs! (http://www.doyouspain.com)) for 'less than £3 a day' !!!! (Mind you the lady on the first page looks a bit strict and I don't think I would mess with her!)
When going regularly to my house near Lanjaron over the last 10 years, I used to reckon €10 Euros a day was good and about average for a small car.
£3 a day - times must be hard.

Tbear
30-11-2013, 07:26
You can get a lot of taxis for the price of a smart car.

Touringtheworld
30-11-2013, 08:15
Wint.

Jane and I wasn't saying it was right (god knows she had told him at least a dozen times) it was an example of how zealous the police have become in Spain.

.... Yes they are skint + motorist = good source of income :-)

baloothebear
30-11-2013, 08:34
You can get a lot of taxis for the price of a smart car.

:)

The trouble comes when you go into a town ie Barnstaple and find there are no spaces big enough to take your Motorhome. Park with the wheel over the marked bay and you get fined; as we did.
We have a Smart for that very reason :)

Anyway, back on topic

It seems that the Germans do like A-Frames. We had two chaps come up to us in Le Tréport to tell us that they had seen quite a few people getting stopped this year in Germany for using A-Frames

kenspain
30-11-2013, 09:09
Wint.

Jane and I wasn't saying it was right (god knows she had told him at least a dozen times) it was an example of how zealous the police have become in Spain.

.... Yes they are skint + motorist = good source of income :-)

Its not the police that want this it's the mob upstairs that order it, with this extra work they have put on them they are not happy. Example my son started his shift at 6am 9hour day with all the extra paper work now its turned out that it's a 10 and half hour day so good you might say all that over time. it would be if they got it but they don't, And its not just the motorist that's getting over here , and has for being skint don.t believe all you read or see on the TV,

Tezza33
30-11-2013, 10:35
...or we could just study and obey the laws of the countries that we visit :wacko:Perhaps if you read all the thread you might see I already think like that, my view of hitting them where it hurts is not just because of A frames, Spain has never been as friendly towards us as other Countries

it is down to the fact you cannot tow a broken down car in Spain and if they don't recognise it as a trailer then we have no argument, I believe 'my Country, our rules' so have to accept it is their Country, their rules

Tezza33
30-11-2013, 11:00
:)



It seems that the Germans do like A-Frames. We had two chaps come up to us in Le Tréport to tell us that they had seen quite a few people getting stopped this year in Germany for using A-FramesGerman Police (a few others as well) do look at A frames but all they do is check that it is working as it should, I have been checked there and spoken to others who have, (spoken directly to them)I don't know anybody who has been made to unhitch
Everybody seems to have been told by somebody else that they have seen or heard something, I get told all the time when I am travelling but it is always that somebody has told them they knew somebody else etc. apart from Spain nobody who actually uses an A frame have said they experience problems

I don't mind who cannot understand why I tow a car, as long as I understand it myself that is all I need.

jonkil
30-11-2013, 15:20
Other countries require you to carry enough hi viz jackets for each passenger and have them available.


I once got told off in an aeroplane safety demonstration by a particularly jobsworth air hostess for not paying attention. When she had got her rant over I loudly demanded why she was showing what a lifejacket was for...... she attempted to explain.....
I stopped her mid way through her rant and said..... I am terribly sorry miss, but you see ... you're wrong.
I said .... "That bright yellow thing your holding only makes it easier to find bodies in the event of a crash".
The plane erupted with laughter. :cool1:


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