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marydot
19-12-2013, 14:12
Reading the AA advice on winter driving in Europe, it makes it sound as though winter tyres (with M+S stamped on the sidewall are compulsory. Surely not, otherwise we need to come up with some new tyres might quickly!

Also we have some snow chain type things which were bought at a MMM show for £75, which are a hard plastic type, much lighter than metal chains. Will they be acceptable? Beginning to panic now!!!!

Marydot

rottiontour
19-12-2013, 15:00
For wintertires in the different countries see this.

http://www.google.de/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&ved=0CH4QFjAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fec.europa.eu%2Ftransport%2Froad_s afety%2Fobservatory%2Fdoc%2Fwintertyres_rules.pdf&ei=VxazUsnHGsmQtQbhuIHgCw&usg=AFQjCNGOpJSrXm984ah_tdNT_mlmPVBr8Q&bvm=bv.58187178,d.Yms

In Austria the snow chains must have an austrian certification
ÖNORM V 5117 or ÖNORM V5119 ,
should be written on the chains.

be

marydot
19-12-2013, 15:55
Looks like we don't need the snow tyres then.
Our Go-Claws look like this
19290

and claim not to damage the road, can be used in mud and sand as well as snow.

Touringtheworld
19-12-2013, 16:37
Marydot,

Just returned from Europe..

Above a certain altitude (In the mountains) in France, Italy and Austria snow chains are required as indicated by roadside picture signs. (Austria - tyres needed if over 3.5 ton)

M & S tyres are compulsory in Germany everywhere (November to April I think), snow chains are no longer compulsory.

Holland and Belgium no requirements.

We were in temperatures from -4c up to +5c depending on who you talk to, winter (M & S) tyres are optimal from +7c and lower.

El Veterano
19-12-2013, 17:08
Although there are situations as highlighted in the posts above when winter tyres and or chains are compulsory (and if they are not compulsory and you are involved in an accident without the correct tyres for the area you are driving in you will probably get a heavy fine) such as mountain passes and ski resorts, you will generally not need M + S tyres on 'normal' roads.
You may not have noticed but the AA sell winter tyres and it is mostly a sales pitch. Much in the same way as the aborted breathalyzer law in France. The AA and the ferry company's are still trying to flog off their millions of breathalyzers saying that they are a legal requirement - they are not.
PS: After driving around the Loire area last February, in the snow, I did buy two M+S Micheline Agilis on return, mostly because the fronts (Continental VancoCampers) were on their way out anyway, and the Contis were abysmal on grass. Then later when I found some damage to one of the rears I bought two more Michelins for those. Camper transformed, quieter, smoother ride, far better grip on everything and best of all I get 3mpg more than I was before. Expensive but worth it in the end for me.
I think you will be fine with your 'Go-Claws'.

marydot
19-12-2013, 17:57
Thanks for your replies. We have just recently put new 'Camper' tyres on the front wheels, so plenty of tread on them. Just starting to panic as we are off to Portugal on 2nd January, and it is not the best time of year to have to start sorting things out! Every time I cross something off the to-do list, something else seems to be put on it. Think I have most things done really, but some of us just thrive on anxiety!:eek:

Marydot

iveco4x4
19-12-2013, 18:11
I think there might be some confusion between M&S and winter tyres here

M&S are normally an all year round tyre , winter tyres require lower temperatures to perform correctly

Winter tyres are not a marketing ploy - they do work hence the need for them in high places and snowy countries. Remember that the tyres are you interface between you and the ground.

Normally a winter tyre has a snowflake design on it , M&S are marked M&S but I think in most countries they will allow you to use M&S interchangeably with winter tyres

Do not buy cheap 4-5mm 2nd hand winter tyres, they have been changed cos although they are legal, the tread is too low to be effective

Interesting that they say the claws are good in sand. The best thing to do in sand is to drop the tyre pressure. Claws will just rip into the surface digging you in

Usefull link, shows symbol and explains differences

ETRMA - Winter tyre (http://www.etrma.org/activities/transport/winter-tyre)

Rich

Aikidoamigo
19-12-2013, 21:29
So please tell me, we have a van with six tyres as do many.

If full timing in such a vehicle how do trans continental travellers deal with these tyre changes because I don't believe for one minute they carry two sets?

Just stay far south in winter and only travel to the alpines outside that season, is that the answer?

iveco4x4
19-12-2013, 21:39
Run M&S rather than winter tyres

should get you through the snow and off a muddy field

Alhough remember no matter how good your tyres are if a driving wheel starts spinning then all torque will go to that wheel and you will be stationary with or without fancy tyres

Rich

Siimplyloco
19-12-2013, 21:44
Run M&S rather than winter tyres

should get you through the snow and off a muddy field

Alhough remember no matter how good your tyres are if a driving wheel starts spinning then all torque will go to that wheel and you will be stationary with or without fancy tyres

Rich

I'm very glad that our Sprinter has double back wheels AND a diff lock!
John

iveco4x4
19-12-2013, 21:51

Aikidoamigo
19-12-2013, 22:04

Siimplyloco
19-12-2013, 22:05
Double back wheels - not good offroad , maybe ok for grass but stones get stuck between them in my experience (my iveco had been retro fitted with them , i got rid)

Diff lock - excellent, that'll get you out of trouble

Rich

Agreed. I have no intention of taking 4.5 tonnes off road, but the odd bit of wet grass will be an occasional challenge!
John

El Veterano
19-12-2013, 22:08

Siimplyloco
19-12-2013, 22:14
As for the breathalyser in France I would have to bow to your judgment on that one, as it is a very cloudy area and was never fully passed by French Parliament, mainly because they could not get enough manufactured in the time scale required as I recollect. But that hardly matters and we have 2 in the glove box anyway bought at Aldi, France for about a €1 each.

I had a hard time finding any this year: the law had been passed for three months before I found anybody who had any to sell! They have been transferred to the glovebox in the Hymer...
John

Viktor
20-12-2013, 11:57
My understanding is that from November 2012 All new Winter Tyres manufactured in the EU must be designated with the snowflake symbol and I think you'll find that any new M+S tyres are also winter tyres, hence the use of both terms. It's only tyres older than Nov 2012 that may not be fully compliant.

Tezza33
20-12-2013, 12:16
I have just bought winter tyres and they have the snowflake symbol and M&S

iveco4x4
20-12-2013, 20:58
Agreed. I have no intention of taking 4.5 tonnes off road, but the odd bit of wet grass will be an occasional challenge!
John

Hence thats why the diff lock is good. I don't often bother with 4x4 cos it means locking my front hubs (which means climing out of the cab and finding the special tool) but I can lock the rear diff on my truck and it does get me out of trouble in 4x2

4.5 tonnes, about what mine weighs

4 tyres can spread the weight, on sand thats good, if it gets muddy it can cause issues as the tyres don't bite down , skinny high tyres are quite popular for mud work but like you say your setup is great for getting you moving when others would be stuck on a field

Diff locks rule :have fun:

Rich

iveco4x4
20-12-2013, 21:01

Siimplyloco
20-12-2013, 21:38
Hence thats why the diff lock is good. I don't often bother with 4x4 cos it means locking my front hubs (which means climing out of the cab and finding the special tool) but I can lock the rear diff on my truck and it does get me out of trouble in 4x2


Rich

I once owned this wonderful Series III short wheel base Landrover County that I bought in the Middle East and had shipped home. Aircon, overdrive and automatic front freewheel hubs which didn't work when reversing out of trouble.....
John
19315

maingate
21-12-2013, 08:00
If a Diff Lock is fitted to a vehicle, it should only be used in emergencies. Overuse or abuse of it can lead to expensive repairs to the drive train and/or Diff.

Siimplyloco
21-12-2013, 08:19
Yes, it had an engine driven capstan winch, and a double skinned tropical roof which we had to close whenever we passed by the Doha camel market because of the appalling stench. I used to shout "Dive dive dive!" and the internal hatches would be slammed shut!
John

maingate
21-12-2013, 10:43
I have driven both, where there were no proper roads and I found the Toyota to be far better than the Land Rovers. They are more reliable and you don't end up covered in bruises from all the sharp corners in the cab thoughtfully fitted by Land Rover. ;)

Siimplyloco
21-12-2013, 11:48
I have driven both, where there were no proper roads and I found the Toyota to be far better than the Land Rovers. They are more reliable and you don't end up covered in bruises from all the sharp corners in the cab thoughtfully fitted by Land Rover. ;)

Agreed. The desert roads in Qatar were littered with abandoned Range Rovers, and heavily populated with Land Cruisers! Mind you, I could hose the desert dust out of my Landy, and with the capstan winch and bull bar on the front I could intimidate the locals at roundabouts....
John


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