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Firefox
13-11-2015, 12:22
Please sign the petition: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111925 to stop rogue operators managing car parks. Please sign and share this far and wide.


It's especially relevant to motorhomes needing breaks on long journeys etc.


Following the recent (ridiculous and out of touch with reality) Supreme Court decision that "Any reasonable motorist would willingly enter into a contract for £85 excess charge for a small overstay" it's time for the reasonable motorists to voice their opinion on the matter direct to the Government.


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111925

maureenandtom
13-11-2015, 13:08
Signed

delicagirl
13-11-2015, 13:10
me too

2cv
13-11-2015, 13:13
And me, spread the word!

955itriple
13-11-2015, 13:22
Another signature added

Steve121
13-11-2015, 13:27
I've signed it, but I think it will fall on deaf ears. What this needs is an EDM (Early Day Motion (http://www.parliament.uk/edm))

jacquigem
13-11-2015, 13:36
Done

Deleted user 21925
13-11-2015, 13:46
I may well be alone here Vernon, but I've got mixed feelings on this one.

Stating that motorhomes need business car parks to rest on long journeys, just makes us sound like arrogant motorhomers, and I can just imagine the shouts of 'freeloaders' going up. The car parks are for users of the business.

Secondly, as a business owner who has had his car park abused, thus preventing getting deliveries etc. I would gladly have seen the culprits fined £85 or even more. I had to deal with it every day.

So, sorry, but I will abstain on this one.

2cv
13-11-2015, 14:06
I may well be alone here Vernon, but I've got mixed feelings on this one.

Stating that motorhomes need business car parks to rest on long journeys, just makes us sound like arrogant motorhomers, and I can just imagine the shouts of 'freeloaders' going up. The car parks are for users of the business.

Secondly, as a business owner who has had his car park abused, thus preventing getting deliveries etc. I would gladly have seen the culprits fined £85 or even more. I had to deal with it every day.

So, sorry, but I will abstain on this one.

I think your opinion may change should you visit your local Aldi and incorrectly enter your vehicle registration into their machine (if you spot it) or return later to return goods or get something you had forgotten, both of which would trigger the charge.

Firefox
13-11-2015, 14:09
Motorhomers resting on journeys is not in the wording of the petition - I just mentioned it here as a throwaway line.

The real question to ask is, if you were parking in a controlled car park, would you voluntarily agree to an £85 contract charge if you happened (for whatever reason) to overstay for say 30 minutes.

If you would agree to the £85, then fair enough, don't sign the petition, some people will agree to the charge.

If you think £85 is too much and you think the amount should be regulated to a proportional amount to pay for the excess parking eg £5 or £10, then sign,as that's the crux of the issue.

We're not saying motorists or motorhomers should be freeloaders. If they overstay they should pay, but the size of the charge should be proportionate and not unregulated.

antiquesam
13-11-2015, 14:23
I'm not in agreement with this one. Everyone parking either on or off road has to look for, and be aware of, the restrictions before leaving the vehicle. To park illegally, or overstay your welcome will risk a penalty. The penalty must be sufficient to deter someone. Excessive amounts to someone like me would be reasonable price to someone else, but we must all be deterred. If you don't like the terms of the contract then you shouldn't park there. If you feel that a business or a Council are being unfair then boycott them, but please tell them, not us, why you are doing it.

Deleted user 21925
13-11-2015, 14:34
I think your opinion may change should you visit your local Aldi and incorrectly enter your vehicle registration into their machine (if you spot it) or return later to return goods or get something you had forgotten, both of which would trigger the charge.

I've never had to enter a reg at Aldi Bill, ours is free parking for 2 hours, I don't know if there is an ANPR. But if that was the case, I would then fight the charge, but I know in the past it has been posted that a simple chat with the store manager has resolved the matter (although I appreciate that is not always the case).

It's really something that doesn't get my goat. £85 is a similar amount to a fine for say, parking on double yellow lines.

I've signed a few petitions, and I don't know if they have any effect or simply cost money in ministers time, but we get so many petitions arising these days, that it has to be a pretty big issue for me to get involved.

Tezza
13-11-2015, 14:41
Im afraid i agree with the above. if you do the crime, then be prepared to do the time or in this case pay the fine. If it is clearly marked there then is no excuse.5 minutes over or 5 hours makes no difference. I bet they have heard every sob story in the world. Our council charges £70 if your a few minutes over. I know that so i make sure i dont overstay. ( have been late getting back to the car in the past and been fined ) there are no excuses.I think they should up the penalty because as stated some people dont care about a £70-£85 charge.Personally I would like it to be at least £100.In my street we have residents parking, but anybody can park there for 1 hour.You should see the abuse that happens to the 1 hour rule.

2cv
13-11-2015, 14:56
Example, one of literally hundreds Old Colwyn man given £70 parking charge after returning to Aldi for refund - Daily Post (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/old-colwyn-man-given-70-8624177)

POI Admin
13-11-2015, 15:06
Signed :D

Steve121
13-11-2015, 15:26
Im afraid i agree with the above. if you do the crime, then be prepared to do the time or in this case pay the fine. If it is clearly marked there then is no excuse.5 minutes over or 5 hours makes no difference. I bet they have heard every sob story in the world. Our council charges £70 if your a few minutes over. I know that so i make sure i dont overstay. ( have been late getting back to the car in the past and been fined ) there are no excuses.I think they should up the penalty because as stated some people dont care about a £70-£85 charge.Personally I would like it to be at least £100.In my street we have residents parking, but anybody can park there for 1 hour.You should see the abuse that happens to the 1 hour rule.

Leaving your vehicle in a private car park is not a crime, and you cannot be fined. You may receive an invoice, and if you choose not to pay and Parking Eye is the company, you will probably end up in court. I'm sure most other companies will automatically take you to court now following the recent High Court ruling.

antiquesam
13-11-2015, 15:36
I remember being a sprog rep. and being told that I could pull any stroke I liked, but when I'm caught don't whinge at the consequences, and I've lived by that rule ever since.

antiqueman
13-11-2015, 15:44
done it. 148

Firefox
13-11-2015, 16:01
Interesting to hear the different views on what is the right level of charge.

In the Supreme court vote (Parking Eye versus Beavis) , it went 6 to 1 in favour of an £85 charge being reasonable.

This is the exact wording of part of the judgment:

"The question is not whether Mr Beavis himself would in fact have agreed to the term imposing the £85 charge in a negotiation, but whether a reasonable motorist in his position would have done so. In our view a reasonable motorist would have agreed."

Only Lord Toulson disagrees:

"By most people’s standards £85 is a substantial sum of money. Mr Butcher reminded the court by way of comparison that the basic state pension is £115 perweek. There may be many reasons why the user of a car park in a retail park may Page 122unintentionally overstay by a short period. There may be congestion in the shops orthe user may be held up for any number of reasons. There may be congestion tryingto get out of the car park. In short there may be numerous unforeseen circumstances.No allowance is made for disabilities."

horshamjack
13-11-2015, 16:24
Signed

sparrks
13-11-2015, 17:44
I would like to see a 15 minute 'grace' period where say the parking is £3 an hour in that 15 minutes you get 'fined/charged' £10 and after that the full penalty applies.

955itriple
13-11-2015, 17:47
Surely every case should be judged on an individual basis? If someone chooses to overstay deliberately then the fine is fair. If the overstay is due to an unforeseen incident such as unexpected delays in the shop/business or indeed attempted theft of your pride and joy from the car park then that should count as a reasonable defence. Unfortunately these unscrupulous car park enforcement agents take your money then tell you you can appeal afterwards. Most people would consider appealing it a waste of time which is what the unscrupulous rely on.

Deleted user 21925
14-11-2015, 12:03
Example, one of literally hundreds Old Colwyn man given £70 parking charge after returning to Aldi for refund - Daily Post (http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/old-colwyn-man-given-70-8624177)

Clearly an example of when the fine should have been waived Bill. (Although he didn't appeal apparently). But there are many cases where the fine should be waived, and this petition isn't going to help that. It is asking for the fine to be capped.

Whether the fine is £10 or £70, if there are extenuating circumstances, it must be taken into account. Maybe a petition for an Ombudsman to be appointed may work better?

Deleted user 21925
14-11-2015, 12:15
.........although I see one has already been appointed.

British Parking Association appoints Ombudsman Services (http://www.ombudsman-services.org/british-parking-association-appoints-ombudsman-services.html)

I don't know how effective it's been though.

Steve121
14-11-2015, 12:35
Unfortunately these unscrupulous car park enforcement agents take your money then tell you you can appeal afterwards. Most people would consider appealing it a waste of time which is what the unscrupulous rely on.

I'm not aware of any ticket for a car park charge or fine which says pay first and then appeal; in fact I'm quite sure such a condition is illegal. They usually state that any appeal will be ignored if you have already paid, as payment is taken to be an admission of guilt. They have to provide details of the appeal process, and will extend the reduced payment period until after the appeal process has been completed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

Deleted user 21925
14-11-2015, 12:37
I'm not aware of any ticket for a car park charge or fine which says pay first and then appeal; in fact I'm quite sure such a condition is illegal. They usually state that any appeal will be ignored if you have already paid, as payment is taken to be an admission of guilt. They have to provide details of the appeal process, and will extend the reduced payment period until after the appeal process has been completed.

Correct me if I'm wrong, of course.

That's what I read in 'Money Saving Experts' advice. Payment is an admission of guilt.

Steve121
14-11-2015, 12:41
I would like to see a 15 minute 'grace' period where say the parking is £3 an hour in that 15 minutes you get 'fined/charged' £10 and after that the full penalty applies.

I did read somewhere that a legally enforceable grace period was being considered.

Firefox
14-11-2015, 19:36
All this could be solved by pay on exit car parks. You pay for the time used and validate your ticket to exit.

But the rogue parking companies have realised they can get more money scamming people with ANPR and "implied contract" systems.

alcam
14-11-2015, 20:52
Sure somebody on here will know better than me , but I think most of the examples given above would not apply in Scotland

maingate
14-11-2015, 21:44
All this could be solved by pay on exit car parks. You pay for the time used and validate your ticket to exit.

But the rogue parking companies have realised they can get more money scamming people with ANPR and "implied contract" systems.

Unfortunately I think you might need to drop the 'rogue' part of the title.

I believe that the big companies are members of their Trade Association (or whatever it is called) and have agreed to a Code of Conduct.

I suppose all that means is that they are not allowed to beat you up and steal your wallet. :lol-061:

Firefox
14-11-2015, 22:57
Sure somebody on here will know better than me , but I think most of the examples given above would not apply in Scotland

It all applies in Scotland too, but crucially the part of the law where the keeper is ultimately responsible for the fine is different. In Scotland, as keeper, you can state you were not the driver and you are under no obligation to disclose the identity of the driver, and will not be liable for the fine if you fail to disclose the driver.

In Scotland, the private parking companies still rake in millions from people who just pay up, but if you know what you are doing as regards to the law, it is easy to avoid the extortion tactics.

2cv
15-11-2015, 21:55
I had thought that this petition may prove popular, with many objecting nationally to multi million pound companies being set up to fleece the motorist, but judging by some opinions here and the fact that only 400 or so have signed maybe people in general have come to just accept such things.
For my part I will continue to avoid Aldi at least.

whitevanwoman
16-11-2015, 09:47
I'll be shopping online from Asda now, as I can't afford to shop at Morrison's Penrith any more - it's 20 miles away so I only go once or twice a month for a biggish shop as I cant drive round the car park looking for a space I can get into, go to the loo, wait to pick up prescription, do a big shop, have a coffee and sandwich, and do my recycling, and exit after considerable manoeuvring out if the parking space within 2 hours. An £85 penalty for a £40-£50 shop simply isn't financially viable and the stress of having to try to rush to do everything just isn't worth it. I will be writing to Morrison's to let them know that their loss is Aada's gain. £85 penalty is not much less than what I spend on food for a month.

I have no alternative to driving since our village lost its bus service last year and is now inaccessible by public transport. And my Transit is my only vehicle, and although I can fit all wheels in a parking space, it overhangs at back, requiring a free space behind me and ideally free space on at least one side to reduce time spent manoeuvring into a space.

I am hoping to be able to appeal 2 tickets on the grounds that there was no planning permission for the cameras but I actually didn't see the signs to say that the parking time allowed had been reduced from 3 hours (which it had been for years) to 2 hours.

Firefox
16-11-2015, 10:55
I had thought that this petition may prove popular, with many objecting nationally to multi million pound companies being set up to fleece the motorist, but judging by some opinions here and the fact that only 400 or so have signed maybe people in general have come to just accept such things.
For my part I will continue to avoid Aldi at least.

Yes, sad fact is there are millions of motorists out there who would sign this in a heartbeat.

But it looks like this petition will go the way of all the others. It really needed to be up in the many 1000's of sigs by now, if it was to have any chance. It seems people are more interested in sharing pictures of animals with funny slogans publicising US radio stations nobody has heard of, than taking a couple of minutes to do something which will have an impact on their lives.

And that's another problem with these petitions. It's more an illustration of divide and conquer than an demonstration of democracy.

maureenandtom
01-03-2016, 11:22
Please sign the petition: Stop private parking companies charging disproportionate penalties in car parks - Petitions (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111925) to stop rogue operators managing car parks. Please sign and share this far and wide.


It's especially relevant to motorhomes needing breaks on long journeys etc.

Following the recent (ridiculous and out of touch with reality) Supreme Court decision that "Any reasonable motorist would willingly enter into a contract for £85 excess charge for a small overstay" it's time for the reasonable motorists to voice their opinion on the matter direct to the Government.


Stop private parking companies charging disproportionate penalties in car parks - Petitions (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/111925)

I think this is the same petition. I received this email this morning. No doubt others did too.

It interested me that the DCLG refers to the penalties as "fines".

Dear *********

The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “Stop private parking companies charging disproportionate penalties in car parks”.

Government responded:

Government recognises the importance of achieving greater fairness for the motorist, which is why we have taken several legislative actions in recent years and are actively considering further changes

Government has already implemented a number of changes which have achieved greater fairness for motorists at the local authority level, including restrictions on the use of CCTV and the introduction of a 10 minute grace period for parking. However, we are aware that concerns about the private sector remain among many individuals and organisations. For this reason, we launched a discussion paper last year entitled ‘Parking reform: tackling unfair practices’, which sought thoughts and comments on the private parking sector. A wide range of issues were raised, including the level of fines charged by private parking companies and the lack of an independent regulator for the private parking industry.

The Government is considering these issues alongside others raised in response to the discussion paper, and will issue a response in due course.

Department for Communities and Local Government

Firefox
01-03-2016, 15:33
Yes I don't think it is going to get 100,000 now, but keeps the pressure on the Gov with a 10,000 response.

FULL TIMER
01-03-2016, 19:56
I may well be alone here Vernon, but I've got mixed feelings on this one.

Stating that motorhomes need business car parks to rest on long journeys, just makes us sound like arrogant motorhomers, and I can just imagine the shouts of 'freeloaders' going up. The car parks are for users of the business.

Secondly, as a business owner who has had his car park abused, thus preventing getting deliveries etc. I would gladly have seen the culprits fined £85 or even more. I had to deal with it every day.

So, sorry, but I will abstain on this one.

With you on this one Rob our business premises is opposite a school, oh what fun we have three times a day with cars abandoned in our drive and yard. Regular arguments with the lazy buggers some of whom only drive a couple of hundred yards to the school from their homes to save twinkle toes from getting sore feet. Nearly came to blows with some obnoxious northern irish moron who thought it was his right to park anywhere where there isn't a no parking sign, he wasn't amused when I used my van to block him in the drive while I finished off a job, asked him if he had no parking signs in his drive, his reply well no of course not ah well I'll be following you home then and use your free car park was my reply.

trevskoda
01-03-2016, 20:35
With you on this one Rob our business premises is opposite a school, oh what fun we have three times a day with cars abandoned in our drive and yard. Regular arguments with the lazy buggers some of whom only drive a couple of hundred yards to the school from their homes to save twinkle toes from getting sore feet. Nearly came to blows with some obnoxious northern irish moron who thought it was his right to park anywhere where there isn't a no parking sign, he wasn't amused when I used my van to block him in the drive while I finished off a job, asked him if he had no parking signs in his drive, his reply well no of course not ah well I'll be following you home then and use your free car park was my reply.

It wasent fecken me and some republican orentated towns here dont and wont pay as they intimadate the wardens or co officals and if it continues they get.:hammer:or worse.

trevskoda
01-03-2016, 20:38
Sorted pen to paper.

FULL TIMER
01-03-2016, 20:56
It wasent fecken me and some republican orentated towns here dont and wont pay as they intimadate the wardens or co officals and if it continues they get.:hammer:or worse.

Trev I had an inkling it wasn't as this twat was in a Vauxhall not one of those classic Skoda's,

sagart
02-03-2016, 08:18
We have a large church carpark near us which is filled with Mum's on the school run every morning & evening.
The PTA have just, seriously, suggested that should the church need to use it for a wedding or a funeral at these times, the vicar gives the PTA a month's notice!
Presumably he is to book a death at least four weeks in advance,

Deleted user 21925
02-03-2016, 08:45
We have a large church carpark near us which is filled with Mum's on the school run every morning & evening.
The PTA have just, seriously, suggested that should the church need to use it for a wedding or a funeral at these times, the vicar gives the PTA a month's notice!
Presumably he is to book a death at least four weeks in advance,

Wow. Can you give me the vicar's contact number.

I'd like to book my death for somewhere around 2050.


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