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View Full Version : Wiltshire - Devizes, Marlborough, Pewsey



AndyC
13-03-2016, 16:09
POI Admin decided not to add these to the POI list, therefore post deleted.

AndyC

Bossangel
13-03-2016, 17:01
These are gold. Being in Wiltshire myself I'm sure I'll use a few of these. Do you know any out towards Swindon ?

AndyC
13-03-2016, 18:02
These are gold. Being in Wiltshire myself I'm sure I'll use a few of these. Do you know any out towards Swindon ?
Sorry, I don't.

Only came across these after we were looking for somewhere to park in Marlborough and noticed that the sign in the George Lane Car Park didn't have any restriction on overnight parking etc mentioned, so looked up the TRO when we got home and was surprised to see that there were indeed no restrictions in it.

We just fit into a car bay as long as we can overhang the back end, which is possible in a few places round the edge of the car park :)

AndyC

POI Admin
13-03-2016, 18:16
Sorry to pour some cold water on this, but the Order does state that the car parks may only be used by the permitted classes of vehicles.

Motorhomes are not included. The Order allows 'Passenger Vehicles', but confusingly does not define such, rather defining motor cars and light commercial vehicles. These are limited to 1525 Kg unladen weight and/or 6ft 6in height (love the mixed units!).

I suspect vehicles such as a Range Rover may not be allowed to park either!

AndyC
13-03-2016, 18:38
Sorry to pour some cold water on this, but the Order does state that the car parks may only be used by the permitted classes of vehicles.

Motorhomes are not included. The Order allows 'Passenger Vehicles', but confusingly does not define such, rather defining motor cars and light commercial vehicles. These are limited to 1525 Kg unladen weight and/or 6ft 6in height (love the mixed units!).

I suspect vehicles such as a Range Rover may not be allowed to park either!
Yes, it's not well written, ridiculous to have a class of vehicle in the Schedules that's not defined in the Order!

However, I've queried the council parking department about motorhome parking, they seem to include them in the coach class but have said that provided a motorhome fits a car bay then car charges will apply. Personally I think that anyone parking sensibly is unlikely to get a PCN, even if one was issued the parking department's responses and the poorly written Order leaves plenty of room for a challenge.

AndyC

POI Admin
13-03-2016, 18:52
I would worry about the weight and height limits despite the verbal assurances. It just takes one over zealous traffic warden and then there's an argument to be had!

What length is your 'van?

TR5
13-03-2016, 20:45
I'm confused. If the council classes a motorhome the same as a coach, it can't be larger in height, weight or length, so how is that a problem?
Only a small motorhome would adequately fit a car bay, so again not a problem.

POI Admin
13-03-2016, 23:55
I'm confused. If the council classes a motorhome the same as a coach, it can't be larger in height, weight or length, so how is that a problem?
Only a small motorhome would adequately fit a car bay, so again not a problem.

The problem is that the Order does not explicitly allow motorhomes to park in these car parks. Consequently parking such a vehicle based on verbal informal advice from somebody at the Council will not protect you from receiving a fixed penalty notice.

Is it worth arguing the toss to get the fine waived?

I shall not be adding these to the POIs.

AndyC
14-03-2016, 08:01
I think you will also find that Wiltshire council state on their website that no sleeping in vehicles is allowed in any of their car parks.
If it's not backed up by a TRO it can't be enforced.

AndyC

Sky
14-03-2016, 08:07
What happened to M1 class vehicle? A motorhome IS a car.

AndyC
14-03-2016, 08:08
The problem is that the Order does not explicitly allow motorhomes to park in these car parks. Consequently parking such a vehicle based on verbal informal advice from somebody at the Council will not protect you from receiving a fixed penalty notice.
Not verbal, written advice..


Is it worth arguing the toss to get the fine waived?
Well I would!


I shall not be adding these to the POIs.
No worries :)

AndyC

Sky
14-03-2016, 08:11
FWIW, I've used most of these and never had a problem. 👹

maureenandtom
14-03-2016, 11:03
A motorhome IS a car. EU end British Govt Definition. You can park where a car can park. The weight and height limits are a bit more worrying.

Thou shalt not sleep. Oh yes? What about Rule 91 Highway Code then? Anyway - prove it.

Is it worth arguing the toss to get the fine waived? Too right it is.

Unless:

Obey Obey Obeeeey - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2uFnQKlXK8)

maureenandtom
14-03-2016, 16:34
I apologise for the bluntness of the above post. Written in an uncharacteristic moment of bad temper after a visit to the dentist.

Here are my views supported by a number of facts and reinforced by a little experience. We are too quick to accept wrongdoing by local authorities. There are a number of parking signs that, as a group, we have learned over the years cannot be enforced. No sleeping, no camping, no overnighting and so on. Local authorities rely on our natural and instinctive obedience to such signs. It is the British thing to do.

For reasons unfathomable to me we allow councils to get away with this. We say, “authority will always get you”, or “somebody doesn't want me to stay here so I won't”, or something of this sort.

If councils can rely on our obedience to unenforceable signs then it has no reason to follow the legal procedure laid down for them when enacting traffic rules and the corrupt may do as they will. A councillor says, “motorhomers leave such a mess behind them” in an effort to cause outrage where none mgiht have existed before, and some of us publicly agree that we do. Another discriminatory traffic order results which most of us will not object to in case the council does something even worse to us. Or we obey because we think we should obey.

What happens if we fight an order? Well, we may lose. Or we may win and so far there have been some wins. Some losses too but, in my experience, all protests have had some beneficial effect for us. The only orders which have gone through unchanged are those we have not challenged.

I've had some wins and some nice things have followed on from that. A council I fought never confirmed that the “nice” changes were due to me but, nevertheless, the changes did follow and we know about some of them.

A “parking ticket”, better referred to as a PCN or Penalty Charge Notice was issued to me under PCN Code 11. It is worth looking up these codes because you can't be guilty of an offence if it doesn't have a PCN Code. Mine was PCN Code 11. I disputed it using the appeals process and quite quickly North Devon District Council withdrew the PCN. I never found out why though I asked. The council avoided an answer. Even to saying their filing system did not allow the recording of such things.

Shortly after this, my offence, - this was cooking, camping, sleeping, - disappeared from signs in NDDC's car parks. Abd again shortly after that another well known motorhomer received and published information from NDDC that, while the no overnighting signs would remain in their car parks, the council no longer had the intention of enforceing them.

This was not the end. Soon after that the national list of PCN codes was changed. PCN Code 11 was changed from the offence of cooking, camping, sleeping to a different offence. You can not now receive a ticket for these offences - cooking, camping, sleeping. Any no overnighing sign can safely be ignored - there is no longer a PCN Code for it.

This was still not the end. Another, lower level, council in the NDDC area made public that at five car parks in their area overnight parking of motor homes would be permitted for a reasonable fee - £5 I think from memory.

Dur to my protest? I don't know. But these things did follow in that order.

channa
14-03-2016, 16:47
A motorhome IS a car. EU end British Govt Definition. You can park where a car can park. The weight and height limits are a bit more worrying.
.

Is it worth arguing the toss to get the fine waived? Too right it is.

]

On this occasion , I agree with you. My understanding when I challenged a ticket is

Motorhome has no legal definition, Motor Caravan does, so signs stating motorhome are using a term that has no relevance.

Motor caravans that fall into the category m1 are as you suggest the same classification as a motor car and the body attached home or simple flat bed has no relevance.

Weight restrictions are the one to really watch for.
Channa


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