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Wolfs-Heads
21-02-2009, 14:49
Lake District National Park - doesn't that give the impression of a Park for the NATION? Forget it if you want to wild camp, the 'jobsworths' have taken over the asylum! Apparently, the alternative holiday lifestyle is NOT welcome in the Lakes. OK so the majority of the 'camping police' fraternity are polite and friendly when asking you to move on but we had one very rude guy who started taking photographs and then challenged us, complete with smug expression, saying "THAT just cost you a £400 fine!". We politely informed him that we were causing no nuisance, leaving no rubbish and were ready to move on. His response? "Well we've had just too many problems with gypsies in the past and we don't want any more". Gypsies? A middle-aged couple, enjoying a few days walking in the Lakes, in their vintage VW Campervan? Oh well, nice to be a rebel in your 50s eh? Shame they spend so much on publicising the Lakes as a free-to-roam holiday destination and then proceed to ruin the very freedom they promise!

PaulC
21-02-2009, 16:21
OK did you have to pay the £400 fine then?

peppers
21-02-2009, 18:35
when this reccetion really starts to bite and all the same s^&% different shop overpriced outdoor clothing shops have shut ,and the rip off cute little tea shops have gone ,they might think again,WILD CAMPING IS NOT A CRIME

mandrake
21-02-2009, 19:11
best bet is go and enjoy the scenery then park up for the night in a laybie somewhere near as we do .if anyone tells you to move unless they are police officers tell them to walk away in short jerkey movements

Belgian
21-02-2009, 19:46
The same phenomenon over here at the Belgian coast.
They are spending millions promoting the coast; but they don't see they allready lost the battle before it started. As long that 1 week Anthalya, all-in, is cheaper than a week at our own coast (with rain, cold and no sunshine...). It's reccesion times ....weep weep weep :(
Then they appoint a bunch of nitwits, with no more brains than a shrimp, to keep an eye open and 'help' the tourists. Gave them an uniform and a macho ego, some vague authority, brainwash them down to SS-style and let them loose on the scarce motorhomers. These guys are 'crocodiles'; big mouth, thick neck, no brains and clumsy limbs :rolleyes:
Forbidden this and that; well equiped with a trigger-happy fine-booklet they finally make all positive efforts useless, nobody is happy, many are chased and disgusted; so they have to spend even more millions to actract tourists.... the never ending story. :eek:
(why do I think common sense is going down the drain --- it should be old age ? :confused:)
Enjoy fellows, as long as we can; don't let you screwed up ;)

messenger 2.5td
21-02-2009, 20:57
What a pr*ck some peoples attitude stinks,was he an official or just another arrogant local yokel?May the fleas of a thousand camels infest his undercrackers:DWhere were you staying?£400 fine for what exactly?Best to stay clear of the popular tourist locations and head for the hills.There are still some places off the beaten track places in the lakes you can go without getting hassle,Andy;)

grath
21-02-2009, 21:25
There is a warden or ranger:eek: just like you describe at Betwesycoed in Wales. But the head Ranger is a great guy as he has nothing to prove:D

PaulC
22-02-2009, 11:16
At times I think there are posts that are dis-information! Can you be find £400 for illegal parking amyhow? If so where? I mean think about it, anybody can come here and post a scarce story! And they have just posted once, it makes you think!

Wolfs-Heads
22-02-2009, 18:32
Maybe the reason I have only posted once is because I have only just joined!!!! In answer to your previous Q, we eventually talked the guy round by making him see we were bona fide visitors and, what is more, putting some money into local businesses during our stay. He told us just to move on and then he "wouldn't be passing the photographs on to the authorities". I have no idea if he was bluffing about the £400, we didn't hang around to find out!

The intention of my post was to try to help others avoid the hassle of having to reason with such little tinpot dictators. After all, isn't that the general purpose of sites such as this?

BedfordMJ
22-02-2009, 18:43
Maybe the reason I have only posted once is because I have only just joined!!!! In answer to your previous Q, we eventually talked the guy round by making him see we were bona fide visitors and, what is more, putting some money into local businesses during our stay. He told us just to move on and then he "wouldn't be passing the photographs on to the authorities". I have no idea if he was bluffing about the £400, we didn't hang around to find out!

The intention of my post was to try to help others avoid the hassle of having to reason with such little tinpot dictators. After all, isn't that the general purpose of sites such as this?


So why didn't you post that it wasn't actually a problem instead of trying to fire up an outrage thread?

Wolfs-Heads
22-02-2009, 18:47
Hi Andy

We were at Ravenglass, wanting to spend a couple of days chilling by the coast after all that fell-walking around Wasdale! He informed us that he was a member of the local Parish Council and that we were trespassing. Had we not chosen to remain polite and diplomatic, rather than letting off steam, I would have informed him of the minutiae of the laws of trespass and that his 'evidence' would in no way be admissible in court. Not that he would have listened anyway - FAR too fond of the sound of his OWN voice!

Wolfs-Heads
22-02-2009, 18:50
Becaus it WAS a problem to us - it put a nasty taste to the end of our holiday. As for an 'outrage thread', Ididn't even know such things existed! I shall consider my hands well and truly smacked; life's FAR too short for anything else!

flashingblade
22-02-2009, 19:00
hi there. thanks for warning us of the negative attitude. next time, get a photo of the offending beurocrat and post it on this site !!

BedfordMJ
22-02-2009, 19:28
Becaus it WAS a problem to us - it put a nasty taste to the end of our holiday. As for an 'outrage thread', Ididn't even know such things existed! I shall consider my hands well and truly smacked; life's FAR too short for anything else!

Well in reality, some chap got a bit shirty, you had a chat to him and no £400 fine.
You posted that you were going to get a fine and only posted later that in fact nothing of the sort occurred.
Why did you do that?

PaulC
22-02-2009, 20:46
I've seen over a period of time similar posts and then the poster disappears into the ether. Sometimes it hasn't been so subtle. And seen as PC Plod has been trawling Facebook for collars it is not impossible that NP, NT and others may be appling similar tactics! However if I am wrong then I'm sorry. But a £400 fine did seem implausible!

Wolfs-Heads
22-02-2009, 20:54
No probs Paul! I'm not a plain clothes member of the fun police, just a committed wildcamper who is becoming increasingly aware that my leisure pursuit of choice is being impeded by petty bureaucrats and wanabee Napoleons.

I apologise sincerely to any members who may have been misled / annoyed / whatever by my original post but, as originally stated, I was merely tryng to be helpful.

I shall be more judicious in future and speak only when I am spoken to!

Stay cool campers!

TWS
22-02-2009, 21:18
Hi and welcome to the Wildside, sorry to hear about your experience in the lakes, I'm sure we have all come across little Hitlers who have far too much time on there hands, I wouldn't let it wind you up my friend. I'm up in Fort William at the moment, not had one bit of bother since we came up last Tuesday evening !

Tom

PS Our country seems very backward in its thinking about M/H parking and night stopovers ! it will take years to change.

Wolfs-Heads
22-02-2009, 21:35
Thanks for the welcome Tom x

Backward is right and SO short-sighted! Surely in these times of crunch and constraint ANY passing trade should be welcomed? Or is it the good old British disease, namely "Don't EVER dare to be different"? Just be a good little sheep and tread the conventional route without ever a radical or independent thought entering your head.

I'll jump off my soapbox for now!

Marian

cipro
22-02-2009, 21:39
I shall be more judicious in future and speak only when I am spoken to!

Misled or not the info was general not as if you said repair some thing
a certain way and it was totally wrong and caused damage:eek:
Most of the time I take things with a pinch of salt until you get to now
people and there are some very genuine campers on line

Old DAD says once bitten twice shy hee hee
Keep posting the info pal:D:D

barryd
24-02-2009, 11:52
Hi All

This is typical of the Lake District, I live about 45 min away and I used to have a cabin cruiser moored on Windermere. They ruined that for everyone by putting in speed limits after they promised for years that they would never do it. So what did all the boat people do (who incidentally spend on average 10 times more locally per day than your average day tripper). They cleared off that’s what. And guess what, sales were down 30% straight away. Me, I bought a motorhome and spend a lot of time in Scotland and the western isles where we are welcome. I never go to the lakes now except for a day now and again to break the speed limit in me dinghy. Their loss!

mandrake
24-02-2009, 16:20
No probs Paul! I'm not a plain clothes member of the fun police, just a committed wildcamper who is becoming increasingly aware that my leisure pursuit of choice is being impeded by petty bureaucrats and wanabee Napoleons.

I apologise sincerely to any members who may have been misled / annoyed / whatever by my original post but, as originally stated, I was merely tryng to be helpful.

I shall be more judicious in future and speak only when I am spoken to!

Stay cool campers!

hi there you post as and when you want, most posts on here are welcome. as you are a new member you will soon learn the places to stay and enjoy our pastime, it is very rare you come across these jobsworths and you will soon come to ignore them and find nice places to stay .

maureenandtom
24-02-2009, 17:20
Well, I'm not outraged. Far from it. It's useful information and it has stirred a thought. Whitehaven is just along the West Cumbrian coast and it's not long since I saw a television programme about it.

Whitehaven has a rich history as a port and as an industrial centre, coal mining, iron ore mining, and steel working just a bit north in Workington. Proximity to the Lakes and lots of nice things round there.

But the point is that the television programme - might have been Countryfile - was about Whitehaven trying to launch itself as a tourist destination. A few emails to Copeland Council Tourist Office about the advantages of an Aire might not go amiss. Whitehaven could be a suitable place to stay while travelling around the area.

Anybody want to research this one? I'll do a bit of research and let you know but I'll be away from next week until early summer.

Tom

Wolfs-Heads
25-02-2009, 22:42
Thanks for that Maureen and Tom. Info sharing was my only intention!

Whitehaven / Maryport / Cockermouth areas are quite lovely and steeped in history. Neither are they as over-commercialised as some of the Lake District 'honeytraps'. I agree it's a pity that the No Wildcamping rule seems to be counterproductive to all the council's efforts to market the area as a tourist destination.

Maybe we need to lobby the ETB and similar organisations to promote our cause as an opportunity to work in partnership?

maureenandtom
26-02-2009, 11:49
This is a copy of the email I sent a couple of days ago to Copeland Council. I googled Whitehaven and it's true - they're going to spend millions, it would be nice to have a place for us, don't you thinK?

I'll let you know of any reply I get.

It's a picture of the email so if you click on those links they won't take you anywhere, you'll have to type them in yourself.

Tom
http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4138/1steamiltocopeland.jpg

barryd
19-03-2009, 19:22
Having said I would never go back to the lakes we just did. I decided that we should not be put off by what we have heard and I am so glad we went. I started a new link rather than adding it this one as I forgot about this post so here is the link

http://www.wildcamping.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?p=52341#post52341

The Cumbrian
03-05-2009, 22:45
Whitehaven, yes the powers that be have spent a lot of money on the harbour area, some nice sculptures and a big new heritage type place called The Beacon.
A pleasant town centre with the usual array of shops.

Try Sellafield visitor centre, I've never been but it's supposed to be an experience, about 10 miles South of Whitehaven.

Or Workington, about 7 miles North of Whitehaven, used to be a steelworks, coal mines and docks, not much left of those industries. A small harbour, new town centre shopping arcade.

channa
03-05-2009, 23:32
Hi All

This is typical of the Lake District, I live about 45 min away and I used to have a cabin cruiser moored on Windermere. They ruined that for everyone by putting in speed limits after they promised for years that they would never do it. So what did all the boat people do (who incidentally spend on average 10 times more locally per day than your average day tripper). They cleared off that’s what. And guess what, sales were down 30% straight away. Me, I bought a motorhome and spend a lot of time in Scotland and the western isles where we are welcome. I never go to the lakes now except for a day now and again to break the speed limit in me dinghy. Their loss!

Out of interest, the speed limits werent introduced for good reason ?

And what exactly was 'ruined ' by the introduction of a speed limit ?
Self indulgence and the noise generated versus the popular opinion of traditional lakeland activity ?

Of course I dont infer you subscribe to this behaviour but the speedboaters, water skiers et al pretty much buggered it up for all.

The same way as arrogant and irresponsible attitudes will bugger it up for those of us who wild camp ...I.e always a faction that want it take it too far with no regard for others.!.

channa

barryd
04-05-2009, 09:57
Out of interest, the speed limits werent introduced for good reason ?

And what exactly was 'ruined ' by the introduction of a speed limit ?
Self indulgence and the noise generated versus the popular opinion of traditional lakeland activity ?

Of course I dont infer you subscribe to this behaviour but the speedboaters, water skiers et al pretty much buggered it up for all.

The same way as arrogant and irresponsible attitudes will bugger it up for those of us who wild camp ...I.e always a faction that want it take it too far with no regard for others.!.

channa

Hi Channa

When the National Park Authority put an end to water skiing on Ulswater in the 70's it was always prommised that the sport would always be available on Windermere.

People argued that "ooh I come to the lakes for peace and quiet" Fine but then why do you go to Bowness then? Its like Blackpool and hardly quiet even without the boats. The locals didnt want the ban!

Being localish I have friends with businesses in that area. They have all suffered as a result of the ban, the whole economy has. I know at least one person who has lost his job as a result.

There were a few bad apples your right. These were mainly idiots on jetskis flying around at 70mph in the middle of the night.

What they could have done is designated half the lake for Water Skiing / power boating with perhaps a speed limit of 35knotts.

It just gets my goat watching the health and safety nanny state lot slowly strangle the adventure out of this country!

channa
04-05-2009, 10:14
Hi Channa

When the National Park Authority put an end to water skiing on Ulswater in the 70's it was always prommised that the sport would always be available on Windermere.

People argued that "ooh I come to the lakes for peace and quiet" Fine but then why do you go to Bowness then? Its like Blackpool and hardly quiet even without the boats. The locals didnt want the ban!

Being localish I have friends with businesses in that area. They have all suffered as a result of the ban, the whole economy has. I know at least one person who has lost his job as a result.

There were a few bad apples your right. These were mainly idiots on jetskis flying around at 70mph in the middle of the night.

What they could have done is designated half the lake for Water Skiing / power boating with perhaps a speed limit of 35knotts.

It just gets my goat watching the health and safety nanny state lot slowly strangle the adventure out of this country!

I cant say I disagree with you, I think it is the jetskis that put an end to it all.

That really was my point bad apples spoil it for the rest.That seems to hold true for all pastimes.

It will be interesting to see what response is given to the e-mail.

I recorded similar sentiments in the Pyreenees last year whilst stopping at St Pierre St Martin. A local authority that had the prescence to work out motor vans brought incremental business to the village.

I agree about the nanny state !!

Channa

barryd
04-05-2009, 11:04
I know we all agree but it just seems crazy that this country behaves like it does. Mind you some clever business owners are starting to latch on. The two pubs in Pooley Bridge for instance and yesterday when I drove home up the A66 from Scotch Corner I noticed the Fox Hall Inn car park (about 7 miles west of Scotch Corner) has extended its car park and there were two large vans in there. If you think about it that pub is on the main drag across to the Lakes and Western Scotland. If they allow MH's to stop off there (and there are loads every day on that road) they are going to spend money in the pub even if they just go in for a jar or two. I think however that persuading the local councils to set aside areas may prove more difficult than asking a friendly landlord if you can park in his car park and spend money on his beer and food!

maureenandtom
13-05-2009, 20:41
I've had a response to my email to Copeland Council. I don't know the ethics of publishing it in full but I've asked permission to share it and I will if the Tourism Manager at Copleland Council says I can.

However, I see no reason why I shouldn't quote from it.

In terms of your original suggestion, I am very interested in the idea.

Clearly this form of tourism is in its infancy in this area and the TIC only receives about 30 motor caravanner queries per year.

My suggestion was about emulating French Aires in Cumbria, specifically in the Whitehaven area. TIC is an abreviation for Tourist Information Centre,

Free overnight parking available at Whitehaven on South Beach (but no facilities available).

For pitches with facilities, visitors are directed to the Seacote at St Bees, Tarnside at Braystones or Seven Acres at Holmrook, all of which are chargeable.

Here I think she was just telling me, and other council officers, what information they make available. She wasn't putting me off, just informing me.

Challenges include –

Lack of toilets on Whitehaven harbourside.

Lack of free parking or Council owned property with “No Overnight Stays”.

Perfect pitches might already be in private hands and charge would need to be made.

West Cumbria / Countywide research required into services available (if not adequately detailed in the Go Lakes Caravan and Camping Guide).

I think this was meant as information for me but was probably meant for other council officers to respond to her.

I've responded to her and I've made comments of my own. When I get another response then I'll let everybody know and maybe you can advise me,

I cautiously believe that this Copeland Officer is truly interested and this comment of hers really reinforces my belief.

Meeting with yourself and --------------------- to work through improving the information available to motor caravanners

I've been away. Australia. Not in the van, unfortunately. But I'm off to France in the van in less than three weeks and I'll be away all summer. I'll keep everybody up to date though.

Tom

channa
13-05-2009, 21:04
Well at least they are prepared to have dialogue with you.

And if you get a meeting, a good opportunity to give a bit of a presentation illustrating the positives. ( perhaps a visual portfolio of French sites might help.) Pictures painting a thousand words etc.

On behalf of a fellow motorhomer, thank you for going to the trouble in attempting our pastime can be enjoyed in this area. Thanks
Channa

nigel54
13-05-2009, 22:14
Tom, like Channa I would also like to thank you for planting a seed in the heads at Whitehaven. And suprise! you have had a responce, brill, THANK YOU.

barryd
13-05-2009, 23:15
Yeah nice one Tom! Its alright us grumpy old men (and I include myself here) ranting on in this forum about wildcamping and how crap the UK attitude is but heres someone who has done something about it and got a good response by the look of it! I live in a tourist area called Teesdale at the top of the North Yorkshire Dales / Durham County, maybe I should have go at Richmond or Barnard Castle council. Bet I dont though! :eek:

lenny
13-05-2009, 23:23
Great work Maureandtom;), you could have set the ball rolling here, lots of former coastal industrial towns are now looking to tourism as their new form of recovering their declining economy.
And well done to Copeland Council for the so far positive responce:)

maureenandtom
15-05-2009, 10:01
I've had another reply from Copeland Council. The present situation re parking in Copeland Area is

The Copeland Borough off street parking Place order says as follows:

No person shall use any part of a parking place or any vehicle left in a parking place

(a) for sleeping or camping purposes

(b) for eating or cooking purposes for any domestic or sanitary purposes



I've been given a contact number for when I'm back in England in the Autumn and I've been inivited to continue talking to them.

I'm not disheartened but rather encouraged. The idea of an Aire wasn't mentioned again but time for reflection might not be a bad thing and perhaps you ideas people could help me.

I think the way to persuade local authorities is not just to tell them how things are done elsewhere but to find reasons why they should do it here. The reason has to be financial. If we can show it is profitable to them, then who knows what we can get?

I've started to look at this aspect so I'd like your ideas and perhaps you could all read this http://www.cmca.net.au/pages/design/links/uploaded/CMCA_Issues_paper_July_2005.pdf and let me know your thoughts and ideas preferably in this thread so that ideas can bounce around a bit. Before I go away, I'll also let Copeland know of the document - it might possibly give them food for thought.

There's a similar Italian paper (but it's in English, I can't think why) and I didn't bookmark it and can't find it again. Anything similar you can find, I'd be interested in.

This paper gives all sorts of figures that, if we can find authoritative sources we could use to persuade local authorities that it is in their financial interests to provide us with facilities.

Tom

PaulC
15-05-2009, 12:09
"Parking place" does that mean car parks? Not eleswhere? But in "England, The Rough Guide" it states.. "free camping is illegal in National Parks"

maureenandtom
15-05-2009, 12:28
I don't know. Maybe somebody can answer. My guess is that it means any publicly owned car park (the council owns nothing, we own it all) but not on the street where different rules apply.

My guess again is that our elected local representatives can make rules about car parking in a town's car parks (off street parking) but central government makes the rules of the road. I know that isn't a good answer -what about double yellows and speed limits for example? But it's the sort of thing I want to find out. One thing to remember is something I've only just thought about. Council employees don't administer council rules, they administer OUR rules on OUR behalf. If true, that means rules can be altered, even off street parking rules.

I know that I'm generally not happy about sleeping in a town car park but feel safer from a ticket in a residential area. That's because I once had a ticket for sleeping in a town car park although it was withdrawn when I made a fuss about it.

About the National Park, I don't know. Some people free-camp happily.

Tom

(I'll stop signing Tom now because on this subject it will always be me - not Maureen).

channa
15-05-2009, 13:29
I don't know. Maybe somebody can answer. My guess is that it means any publicly owned car park (the council owns nothing, we own it all) but not on the street where different rules apply.

My guess again is that our elected local representatives can make rules about car parking in a town's car parks (off street parking) but central government makes the rules of the road. I know that isn't a good answer -what about double yellows and speed limits for example? But it's the sort of thing I want to find out. One thing to remember is something I've only just thought about. Council employees don't administer council rules, they administer OUR rules on OUR behalf. If true, that means rules can be altered, even off street parking rules.

(I'll stop signing Tom now because on this subject it will always be me - not Maureen).

You have pretty well answered the question ...Off Road parking- local council, Roads County Councils, Motorways Secretary of State.

Speed Limits, Yellow Markings are arrived at by Traffic restriction orders at county council level, However the applicant can and often is by local councils under pressure /advice for e.g safety partnerships etc.

I agree, local bye-laws can be altered by the councils.

A thought I have had, is even if your dialogue with Copeland Council reaches astalemate in respect of public property, there may be the opportunity of favourable planning permisson for private aires. Supermarkets , garden centres etc. They dont have to charge ( many in france dont ) but there is a good chance more money will ring through their tills

Channa

maureenandtom
24-09-2009, 10:41
This is the story so far. It's a story that might have come to an end now because I can't see any effective way to go after this.

First, I sent the email you can read again, if you wish, earlier in the thread. This was 25th February. Some of this stuff I'm about to repeat.

There was no reply. So on 3rd April, I tried again. (I was away for all March. Australia – lovely). Once again there was no reply.

By this time I began to be annoyed and a little amused. So this is how they answer difficult problems – ignore them. So, on 4th May I again emailed these people, this time addressed to the Chief Executive saying that this time I was making a complaint.

This got a response. Not from the Chief Executive. A less exalted officer replied that I would be attended to and I later did get a response from the Tourism Services Manager. This was 13th May and, among other things she said:

In terms of your original suggestion, I am very interested in the idea.

Free overnight parking [is] available at Whitehaven on South Beach (but no facilities available).
*
Ah, I thought, a result. My friends at Wild Camping will be thrilled.

However, on 15th May (two days later) she again emailed me and said

The Copeland Borough off street parking Place order says as follows:
*
No person shall use any part of a parking place or any vehicle left in a parking place
(a)**** for sleeping or camping purposes
(b)**** for eating or cooking purposes for any domestic or sanitary purposes
*
For this reason I am investigating further the use of South Beach with the Tourist Information Staff. I would prefer to have clarification on whether in fact parking is permitted in this area before you share it with other caravanners.


Then I was again away for three months (France – lovely) and early September I contacted the tourism manager and told her I was back. She said, on 3rd September:

As yet no word back from your proposal which has been copied to the Council’s Car Parking/Enforcement Department. I have copied them into this message for information.

By now, more than a little annoyed that tourism officials were subordinating their own needs to the needs of an Enforcement Department who had been sitting on their hands for more than three months by now, I told the tourism manager that it was obvious that council employees were obviously not in favour of expanding tourism in this way so I saw no sense in proceeding further.

I think I detected relief in her response when she replied by thanking me for my correspondence.

Case closed.

Except that I can't rid myself of the feeling that this is wrong. There is something profoundly wrong that unelected paid employees of the tax payer can block something so vital to the community by simply ignoring it until proponents give up and go away.

So I found out who the councillor is who has responsibility for tourism.

I emailed him on 6th September. So far (24th September) he has not responded. Not even an acknowledgement.

So there you are. I'm a bit fed up with these people. But I'm more than fed up. I'm angry.

I'm not inclined to let it rest now. Who do these people think they are? Does anybody have any suggestions as to how to proceed?

My first thought is to email all elected Copeland councillors and ask if there are reasons why my suggestion has been ignored and then address those reasons. My second thought is to involve the local press (Whitehaven News) and my third is to use the Whitehaven Forum to involve local people.


Sorry.

Tom

barryd
24-09-2009, 13:27
"My first thought is to email all elected Copeland councillors and ask if there are reasons why my suggestion has been ignored and then address those reasons. My second thought is to involve the local press (Whitehaven News) and my third is to use the Whitehaven Forum to involve local people."

Its just typical council attitude. I think you have made a sterling effort in what you have done so far. I think the press would be a good idea but ideally you need to have someone on your side at the council who has the clout to make decisions and perhaps make the right people start a proper dialogue with you. Dont know if you know anyone at the council but in my experience in business with dealing with these people there is always a back door if you know somebody on the inside who can pull strings or make the right person pay attention. Failing that getting the press on your side may be the way forward. Not sure about the forum as it may generate negativity from locals but at the end of the day you have to be prepared for people to object and one thing is for certain, some will object.

I like you would be angry after all this time and effort and would be unwilling to let go.

Let us know if you want us all to turn up in our vans and blockade the town hall or something. Diplomacy was never one of my better skills!

Barry

John Thompson
24-09-2009, 14:29
A thought I have had, is even if your dialogue with Copeland Council reaches astalemate in respect of public property, there may be the opportunity of favourable planning permisson for private aires. Supermarkets , garden centres etc. They dont have to charge ( many in france dont ) but there is a good chance more money will ring through their tills

Channa

There is always the posibility of getting the Supermarkets, Garden Centres to approach the Motor Carravanners Club to be included in the scheme they have at present for 5 van certificated Sites. They have expanded this with Practical Motorhome to include Pub Stops.

Natural England now accept that you do not need to be a member of the exempting club to use the site. Just that it was set up primarily for members.

The point of only getting a few enquiries. I know places where I can stay at present so I do not contact any of the Tourist Information Offices enquiring for accomodation. That does not mean that the places I use, are where I would like to use. Nor does it mean that I would not use a new place if it became available.

PM me if you need any info on 5 van Certificated Sites or dealings with Natural England. See Pub Stops topic for Natural Englands views on Motorhome Stopovers.

Local Authorities do not need planning permission or a site licence to set up a caravan site within their own area.

stirlingb
24-09-2009, 15:12
hi all
the foregoing posts stired up an idea I had recently (but not acted on yet) whereby our members lobby their own councils to set up motorhome stopping places. I happen to live in Bury and at first I thought (probably because I live here) that nobody would want to come to Bury. However there is a new caravan club site in Bury that is always busy.....therefore some people must want to come Bury. I then got to thinking of reasons to come to Bury.....Touristy steam railway line open every weekend, brand new Lancashire Fusilers museum, tram link into Manchester City centre, Helmshore textile museum up the road, etc etc.
So even if at first thought you don't think there are reasons to visit your locality have a go at lobbying your own council. Obviously winning over your own council is no good to you because you dont want to wild camp at the end of your own road, but if hundreds of our members were all lobbying their own councils then you take advantage of other peoples success, not your own and of course nobody knows your own area better than you do.
Hope I explained my thoughts properly. I will have a go at Bury council I hope everyone in Wildcamping land will follow suit and badger their local authorities into submission

Randonneur
24-09-2009, 15:24
I think you need to quantify it. By that I mean give them numbers, councillors will ignore ifs, buts, and maybes but they all take notice of facts and figures. Get on to the local councillors for Whitehaven and tell them how much money is driving away by motorhomers being discouraged from stopping in the area.

I have not visited the area and I don't know how many of us would visit if we were able to ( I would ).

Give them figures for spend per van per night stopped, ie :- loaf of bread, pint of milk, daily papers, fuel, a meal and beers at the pubs, admission to tourist attractions etc. Give them a rough figure for the likely number of motorhomes requiring overnight stopping facilities in the area, ( summer and winter numbers ), and there are probably other things I have'nt thought of to add in as well, then put all that into pounds and pence. I promise you it will open their eyes.

It probably would'nt harm the cause to gauge reaction from the local community by outlining your findings in whatever local area papers there are as well.

Ever wonder why MP's have so many "researchers" working for them??.

Firefox
24-09-2009, 16:39
The thing is about getting local councils to do anything is that their motivation comes from the voters in the locale and taking up case histories from their constituents.

It's all very well some motorhomer with an outside interest telling them "how much business they are missing out on" but that information is likely to get dropped in the circular filing cabinet. However if a pub/shop owner in the parish comes up and tells them how much business HE is losing because there is no provision for touring motorhomes it becomes a different matter.

Croftland1
24-09-2009, 19:48
There are plans to dock cruise ships in Barrow in order to introduce tourism spend to the area. These people won't be contributing to the local overnight accommodation businesses, but staying in their 'mobile home' at the docks. What they will be doing though is exploring the nearby tourist attractions during the day and spending money. I don't see why we are any different.
If Whitehaven Council set aside a few spaces at the harbour-side for M/H's on a trial basis, they could monitor the effectiveness of the scheme. It's already being done in Teignmouth and Dawlish Warren in North Devon and by all accounts is proving very successful.

rach82
25-09-2009, 06:07
Lake District National Park - doesn't that give the impression of a Park for the NATION? Forget it if you want to wild camp, the 'jobsworths' have taken over the asylum! Apparently, the alternative holiday lifestyle is NOT welcome in the Lakes. OK so the majority of the 'camping police' fraternity are polite and friendly when asking you to move on but we had one very rude guy who started taking photographs and then challenged us, complete with smug expression, saying "THAT just cost you a £400 fine!". We politely informed him that we were causing no nuisance, leaving no rubbish and were ready to move on. His response? "Well we've had just too many problems with gypsies in the past and we don't want any more". Gypsies? A middle-aged couple, enjoying a few days walking in the Lakes, in their vintage VW Campervan? Oh well, nice to be a rebel in your 50s eh? Shame they spend so much on publicising the Lakes as a free-to-roam holiday destination and then proceed to ruin the very freedom they promise!

Did the place have a "no overnight" sign???:confused:

We have wild camped in wasdale, ennerdale & keswick - no problems and "proper" spots not laybays
If you look hard enough and stick to the rules you can find places!
I think this thread has been a bit hard on the Lake district - DO NOT BE PUT OFF - just do your research!!!!!:D

Belgian
25-09-2009, 08:22
For those members who are going to contact local authorities about overnighting and 'aires' for motorhomes maybe this can help.
This French association did a lot of recearch about it and gives arguments to convince local authorities:
ACCL: accueil camping car communes, clefs,étapes, stationnement, aire services, tourisme, (http://a.ccl.free.fr/actions/etapesliberte/00infocom01.htm)
It also gives hints to improve local tourism; how to put up an 'aire', signalisation .....
It is in French but you can easily translate and adapt the interesting parts of it.

maingate
27-09-2009, 14:21
Did the place have a "no overnight" sign???:confused:

We have wild camped in wasdale, ennerdale & keswick - no problems and "proper" spots not laybays
If you look hard enough and stick to the rules you can find places!
I think this thread has been a bit hard on the Lake district - DO NOT BE PUT OFF - just do your research!!!!!:D
There is a considerable difference between wilding in a "stealth" camper and doing it in a 6 metre plus coachbuilt. The best way is the hard way and convince local councils of the benefits of being motorhome friendly. There have been some good suggestions put forward and if we can get an agreement for an action plan then I would support any efforts made.


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