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n brown
02-09-2017, 19:16
5735057351

RoadTrek Boy
02-09-2017, 20:16
Very nice...:yeahthat:

runnach
02-09-2017, 20:32
Pic one, obviously no PPE worn, she got hold of the hot rod.

Pic 2, nice beads, these new super duper double pulse MAG machines really are the bizz!

Byronic
02-09-2017, 20:42
Shows how dangerous that welding malarkey can be. She looks as though forgot her eye protection.

hextal
02-09-2017, 21:20
Ok, for the welders.

I had a falling out with one of our contractors a few years back over some motorway gantries, and I'll admit it wasn't my finest hour. So, was I being reasonable, or a dick (both is also an acceptable answer)?

Now, it was a combined issue between designer and fabricator in that seemingly the designer hadn't specified the weld for connecting the variable message sign connector plates to the main gantries, and the fabricator didn't ask. Call me pedantic, but not specifying welds seems like something of an ommision.

Anyway, the plates were 10mm and had been attached with fillet welds, can't remember exactly what throat (circa 15mm?) but 6 passes from memory, the throat was way bigger than the plate, which had warped massively on all of the gantries.

Anyway, came to a 'lessons learned' meeting and the principal contractor stated that they had learned that overheating metal on one side caused it to warp. I made myself unpopular by suggesting that I thought that was a lesson that had been learned several hundred years ago.




I've never been great with people.

runnach
02-09-2017, 21:35
Ok, for the welders.

I had a falling out with one of our contractors a few years back over some motorway gantries, and I'll admit it wasn't my finest hour. So, was I being reasonable, or a dick (both is also an acceptable answer)?

Now, it was a combined issue between designer and fabricator in that seemingly the designer hadn't specified the weld for connecting the variable message sign connector plates to the main gantries, and the fabricator didn't ask. Call me pedantic, but not specifying welds seems like something of an ommision.

Anyway, the plates were 10mm and had been attached with fillet welds, can't remember exactly what throat (circa 15mm?) but 6 passes from memory, the throat was way bigger than the plate, which had warped massively on all of the gantries.

Anyway, came to a 'lessons learned' meeting and the principal contractor stated that they had learned that overheating metal on one side caused it to warp. I made myself unpopular by suggesting that I thought that was a lesson that had been learned several hundred years ago.




I've never been great with people.

Too many sherbets to give an educated reply, here goes, I would have thought welding for infrastructure work would have to follow a WPS (weld procedure sheet) which would state the variables required to meet the engineering standard?

As you will know, hex. Excessive weld add to weight of a given structure. Excessive heat can also have a detrimental impact around the HAZ (heat affected zone) which can change grain structure of Matl used, which could lead to matl failure.

runnach
02-09-2017, 21:51
Here you go, hex, first line says it all................ FAQ: How do you determine the minimum size of a fillet weld? (http://www.twi-global.com/technical-knowledge/faqs/faq-how-do-you-determine-the-minimum-size-of-a-fillet-weld/)

Byronic
02-09-2017, 22:01
Ok, for the welders.

I had a falling out with one of our contractors a few years back over some motorway gantries, and I'll admit it wasn't my finest hour. So, was I being reasonable, or a dick (both is also an acceptable answer)?

Now, it was a combined issue between designer and fabricator in that seemingly the designer hadn't specified the weld for connecting the variable message sign connector plates to the main gantries, and the fabricator didn't ask. Call me pedantic, but not specifying welds seems like something of an ommision.

Anyway, the plates were 10mm and had been attached with fillet welds, can't remember exactly what throat (circa 15mm?) but 6 passes from memory, the throat was way bigger than the plate, which had warped massively on all of the gantries.

Anyway, came to a 'lessons learned' meeting and the principal contractor stated that they had learned that overheating metal on one side caused it to warp. I made myself unpopular by suggesting that I thought that was a lesson that had been learned several hundred years ago.




I've never been great with people.


Presumably the designer actually specified that the plates at least required welding even if
he didn't actually specify the actual size or type of weld. It may have been written in the
specification but not shown on the working drawings. Usually there is a written condition that
both must be read together.
Or it could just be poor in situ work practise, the welder just did what he himself preferred,
and poorly at that and didn't refer to the documentation or any part of it.

hextal
02-09-2017, 22:03
Had a bottle of wine, so kinda fuzzy too.

From hazy memory of doing the numbers I seem to recall not exceeding circa 80% of the plate thickness for the welds. If the weld needed to be bigger, we'd up the plate thickness.

It was footbridges that were the big issue as the deck plates tended to be quite thin, then they'd get the stiffeners welded to them which could lead to them distorting to the point that they'd dish and hold water, which froze in winter leading to all sorts of issues.


Love the signature by the way.:D

runnach
02-09-2017, 22:07
Presumably the designer actually specified that the plates at least required welding even if
he didn't actually specify the actual size or type of weld. It may have been written in the
specification but not shown on the working drawings. Usually there is a written condition that
both must be read together.
Or it could just be poor in situ work practise, the welder just did what he himself preferred,
and poorly at that and didn't refer to the documentation or any part of it.

Yes of course the welder could nail the job in what fashion he/she, desired. Ultimately, QA should be making sure work is compliant to specification?

runnach
02-09-2017, 22:09
Had a bottle of wine, so kinda fuzzy too.

From hazy memory of doing the numbers I seem to recall not exceeding circa 80% of the plate thickness for the welds. If the weld needed to be bigger, we'd up the plate thickness.

It was footbridges that were the big issue as the deck plates tended to be quite thin, then they'd get the stiffeners welded to them which could lead to them distorting to the point that they'd dish and hold water, which froze in winter leading to all sorts of issues.


Love the signature by the way.:D

.707 rings a bell?

As for sig, I was going to say "lover"........hehe.

hextal
02-09-2017, 22:14
Presumably the designer actually specified that the plates at least required welding even if
he didn't actually specify the actual size or type of weld. It may have been written in the
specification but not shown on the working drawings. Usually there is a written condition that
both must be read together.
Or it could just be poor in situ work practise, the welder just did what he himself preferred,
and poorly at that and didn't refer to the documentation or any part of it.

Yeah, stated welds, but no info.

In terms of being read together - and at the risk of another anecdote. One of my first site works was site rep of the construction of a swing bridge. Was only part time attendance at that site. Turned up just after they'd cast the curtain walls (curved reinforced concrete walls that the nose and tail abutted). Parked up and noticed a load a spare rebar. Checked the tags and it was evident that we'd received a double batch f the wall reinforcement. Asked the foreman if he knew why we'd ended up with 2 lots of wall rebar, to which his response "the walls are reinforced?" gave me that lovely 'pit ofthe stomach' feeling.

The wall construction drawings had the concrete outlines on the top half and the reinforcement details on the bottom half.

Someone had folded the drawing in half.

ricc
03-09-2017, 09:01
Yeah, stated welds, but no info.

In terms of being read together - and at the risk of another anecdote. One of my first site works was site rep of the construction of a swing bridge. Was only part time attendance at that site. Turned up just after they'd cast the curtain walls (curved reinforced concrete walls that the nose and tail abutted). Parked up and noticed a load a spare rebar. Checked the tags and it was evident that we'd received a double batch f the wall reinforcement. Asked the foreman if he knew why we'd ended up with 2 lots of wall rebar, to which his response "the walls are reinforced?" gave me that lovely 'pit ofthe stomach' feeling.

The wall construction drawings had the concrete outlines on the top half and the reinforcement details on the bottom half.

Someone had folded the drawing in half.



the foreman hadnt wondered why thered been rebar delivered to site?

hextal
03-09-2017, 09:10
the foreman hadnt wondered why thered been rebar delivered to site?

He thought it was spare from the foundations. However, that didn't seem to warrant any further thought. As didn't the fact that there were starter bars projecting from the foundations in the locations of the walls.

runnach
03-09-2017, 13:11
Ok, for the welders.

I had a falling out with one of our contractors a few years back over some motorway gantries, and I'll admit it wasn't my finest hour. So, was I being reasonable, or a dick (both is also an acceptable answer)?

Now, it was a combined issue between designer and fabricator in that seemingly the designer hadn't specified the weld for connecting the variable message sign connector plates to the main gantries, and the fabricator didn't ask. Call me pedantic, but not specifying welds seems like something of an ommision.

Anyway, the plates were 10mm and had been attached with fillet welds, can't remember exactly what throat (circa 15mm?) but 6 passes from memory, the throat was way bigger than the plate, which had warped massively on all of the gantries.

Anyway, came to a 'lessons learned' meeting and the principal contractor stated that they had learned that overheating metal on one side caused it to warp. I made myself unpopular by suggesting that I thought that was a lesson that had been learned several hundred years ago.




I've never been great with people.

Hex, 2014 introduction of EN 1090 must help with your area of business?

rockape
03-09-2017, 13:13
Boy, whilst having a walk found some a welders mask and proceeded to put it on.Man pulls up in a car and asks if he would like to go for a ride.In he gets and after a while asks if he knows what bum fun is, no said the boy, what about a blow job ,the man asked again.No,said the boy.What about a wank asks the man yet again.No said the boy, mind you I'm not a real welder.

runnach
03-09-2017, 13:18
Boy, whilst having a walk found some a welders mask and proceeded to put it on.Man pulls up in a car and asks if he would like to go for a ride.In he gets and after a while asks if he knows what bum fun is, no said the boy, what about a blow job ,the man asked again.No,said the boy.What about a wank asks the man yet again.No said the boy, mind you I'm not a real welder.

Been a while since I heard that one :D

maingate
03-09-2017, 14:23
Ok, for the welders.

I had a falling out with one of our contractors a few years back over some motorway gantries, and I'll admit it wasn't my finest hour. So, was I being reasonable, or a dick (both is also an acceptable answer)?

Now, it was a combined issue between designer and fabricator in that seemingly the designer hadn't specified the weld for connecting the variable message sign connector plates to the main gantries, and the fabricator didn't ask. Call me pedantic, but not specifying welds seems like something of an ommision.

Anyway, the plates were 10mm and had been attached with fillet welds, can't remember exactly what throat (circa 15mm?) but 6 passes from memory, the throat was way bigger than the plate, which had warped massively on all of the gantries.

Anyway, came to a 'lessons learned' meeting and the principal contractor stated that they had learned that overheating metal on one side caused it to warp. I made myself unpopular by suggesting that I thought that was a lesson that had been learned several hundred years ago.




I've never been great with people.

As someone experienced in Construction Management, I was always ready to compromise. if there had been any doubt regarding the welding procedure, I would have told him to bolt the feckin' brackets to the structure. :D

hextal
03-09-2017, 15:05
As someone experienced in Construction Management, I was always ready to compromise. if there had been any doubt regarding the welding procedure, I would have told him to bolt the feckin' brackets to the structure. :D

Totally agree on the compromise element. The issue I had was that the mistake got through the fabricator, designer, principal contractor (at trial erection and final erection) and only got spotted (or more realistically, only got reported) during the handover inspections (by an independent company) once they were assembled and the motorway opened. By which time it made life very difficult.

Byronic
03-09-2017, 16:28
The trouble with bolted connections is they will often not have the required design strength (rigid
joint as compared with pin joint) that the welded joint was designed for. Just not the physical
space to get sufficient bolts in place.

maingate
03-09-2017, 16:34
The trouble with bolted connections is they will often not have the required design strength (rigid
joint as compared with pin joint) that the welded joint was designed for. Just not the physical
space to get sufficient bolts in place.

Do try and keep up son. :(

It was for the electronic screen. You know the ones I mean. They tell you to lower your speed to 60 while you are crawling along in a 25 mile traffic jam. :)

channa
03-09-2017, 16:45
Totally agree on the compromise element. The issue I had was that the mistake got through the fabricator, designer, principal contractor (at trial erection and final erection) and only got spotted (or more realistically, only got reported) during the handover inspections (by an independent company) once they were assembled and the motorway opened. By which time it made life very difficult. not a welder, give runnach stress so I would get an A in incompetence ,,,,,but anyway what happened dod you have to knock it down start again .?

Channa

Byronic
03-09-2017, 16:57
Do try and keep up son. :(

It was for the electronic screen. You know the ones I mean. They tell you to lower your speed to 60 while you are crawling along in a 25 mile traffic jam. :)

I didn't make direct reference to your post, just defining a general point or principle. Don't
get paranoid. Chewing gum and supaglue might have done for a road sign. :hammer:

maingate
03-09-2017, 17:21
I didn't make direct reference to your post, just defining a general point or principle. Don't
get paranoid. Chewing gum and supaglue might have done for a road sign. :hammer:

I like your thinking.

A belt and braces man eh? :D


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