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roamingman
15-03-2019, 13:34
I just do not understand, the MP'S, Thay should do what the public voted for and THAT IS TO LEAVE THE EU NOW.
Obviously my opinion.

Pauljenny
15-03-2019, 14:00
I just do not understand, the MP'S, Thay should do what the public voted for and THAT IS TO LEAVE THE EU NOW.
Obviously my opinion.

Mmmmm ?
I wonder what made you decide to post this... It isn't currently an issue, is it?

ian1950
15-03-2019, 14:01
As mark twain said if voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it

runnach
15-03-2019, 14:05
We know the direction of this thread>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> :rulez:

jagmanx
15-03-2019, 14:17
My post simply agreeing seems to have disappeared.
Wish the same thing could happen to MPs !

channa
15-03-2019, 14:22
In a lot of ways I do wish the MPS had voted leave with no deal, pain and disruption aside it would draw a line that as a country and businesses we can move on, The EU would still want trade deals but would send a message Britain will still act independent

Furthermore deliver leaving which satisfies the brexiteers subsequent arrangements were not the issue pretty much like the basis od our exit

Channa

wildebus
15-03-2019, 14:26
My post simply agreeing seems to have disappeared.
Wish the same thing could happen to MPs !

that was because it was on the forum where constant whinging about Brexit is BANNED!

just a shame it is not the case here as well.

Asterix
15-03-2019, 14:29
I think the problem is that no one voted for a really bad deal,is that your preference? The UK could throw itself on the mercy of the USA or commonwealth countries but won't get a good deal their either,they know the UK will truly be backed into a corner by then and they can dictate any take it or leave it deal. Stuck between a rock and a hard place it seems.
The irony is that the leavers have put he UK in this position by voting down a bad deal.

channa
15-03-2019, 14:36
good news is business as normal until Westminster have the bottle to make a meaningful decision

Channa

Minisorella
15-03-2019, 14:55
I think the problem is that no one voted for a really bad deal,is that your preference? The UK could throw itself on the mercy of the USA or commonwealth countries but won't get a good deal their either,they know the UK will truly be backed into a corner by then and they can dictate any take it or leave it deal. Stuck between a rock and a hard place it seems.
The irony is that the leavers have put he UK in this position by voting down a bad deal.

Not just leavers voted it down remember... the whole of Parliament itself and the very way it works has put us in this position. MPs with polar opposite opinions on Brexit voted it down because for one group it didn't get us out enough and for the other group, it didn't keep us in enough! Of course, with the whip usually deployed, there's been too far much protective party politics and not enough common sense or cooperation applied to any aspect of what's happened since the referendum.

For example, whether, as individuals, we agree with it in principle or not, why did anyone think it a good idea to take 'no deal' off the table... by far our strongest bargaining chip? Whether you are Brexit or Remain, everyone wanted the outcome of the negotiations to be as strongly in favour of Britain as possible. Parliament has effectively given the EU carte blanche to dictate the terms it wants now because we've told them very clearly that we'll never just walk away with a shrug and our hands in the air. Do MPs actually not understand politics at all? If only the negotiating team had been drawn from independent experts and all Parliamentary votes had been made non-partisan from the very start.

wildebus
15-03-2019, 15:14
Not just leavers voted it down remember... the whole of Parliament itself and the very way it works has put us in this position. MPs with polar opposite opinions on Brexit voted it down because for one group it didn't get us out enough and for the other group, it didn't keep us in enough! Of course, with the whip usually deployed, there's been too far much protective party politics and not enough common sense or cooperation applied to any aspect of what's happened since the referendum.

For example, whether, as individuals, we agree with it in principle or not, why did anyone think it a good idea to take 'no deal' off the table... by far our strongest bargaining chip? Whether you are Brexit or Remain, everyone wanted the outcome of the negotiations to be as strongly in favour of Britain as possible. Parliament has effectively given the EU carte blanche to dictate the terms it wants now because we've told them very clearly that we'll never just walk away with a shrug and our hands in the air. Do MPs actually not understand politics at all? If only the negotiating team had been drawn from independent experts and all Parliamentary votes had been made non-partisan from the very start.

ref your point "Parliament has effectively given the EU carte blanche to dictate the terms it wants now because we've told them very clearly that we'll never just walk away".... the UK 'negotiating' (I use that team advisedly) team essentially turned up like it was a poker game, but then turned over their cards on the first hand saying "are these any good? what should we do?"
I think it would had been quite hard to find a less competent group of people than those chosen.

It does make me wonder if they actually had a mandate of incompetency and a directive to make such a balls-up of the whole process it would force a general feeling of "better in than out" amongst the population and a cancellation of Article 50 (That is still quite possible)

Minisorella
15-03-2019, 15:30
ref your point "Parliament has effectively given the EU carte blanche to dictate the terms it wants now because we've told them very clearly that we'll never just walk away".... the UK 'negotiating' (I use that team advisedly) team essentially turned up like it was a poker game, but then turned over their cards on the first hand saying "are these any good? what should we do?"
I think it would had been quite hard to find a less competent group of people than those chosen.

It does make me wonder if they actually had a mandate of incompetency and a directive to make such a balls-up of the whole process it would force a general feeling of "better in than out" amongst the population and a cancellation of Article 50 (That is still quite possible)

I'm not sure we ever even looked at our hand in all honesty... it was confirmed by a politician last night on Question Time that the first draft of the withdrawal agreement was written by the EU itself and given to Theresa May :rolleyes2:

maingate
15-03-2019, 15:46
Her deal is worse than no deal, that's why nobody wants it.

A friend put a very interesting article on another forum. All this crap about the EU being good for the UK is rubbish. It has been bad for a number of member states. We would always have been better off without it (that's assuming our Politicians didn't completely **** the country up).

A link to the article:

https://www.civitas.org.uk/content/files/mythandparadox.pdf

runnach
15-03-2019, 16:13
Tell Tusk et-all, to ram it where the sun don't shine. And to also tell this money pit organisation, to whistle for the 40/50 billion £ so called divorce deal.

Derekoak
15-03-2019, 16:14
Well no her deal is just a withdrawal agreement with all important cans kicked down the road. Mays withdrawal agreement could still lead to your no deal, but some better outcomes, but not to the best, staying in the EU with preferential terms.

alcam
15-03-2019, 16:42
Not just leavers voted it down remember... the whole of Parliament itself and the very way it works has put us in this position. MPs with polar opposite opinions on Brexit voted it down because for one group it didn't get us out enough and for the other group, it didn't keep us in enough! Of course, with the whip usually deployed, there's been too far much protective party politics and not enough common sense or cooperation applied to any aspect of what's happened since the referendum.

For example, whether, as individuals, we agree with it in principle or not, why did anyone think it a good idea to take 'no deal' off the table... by far our strongest bargaining chip? Whether you are Brexit or Remain, everyone wanted the outcome of the negotiations to be as strongly in favour of Britain as possible. Parliament has effectively given the EU carte blanche to dictate the terms it wants now because we've told them very clearly that we'll never just walk away with a shrug and our hands in the air. Do MPs actually not understand politics at all? If only the negotiating team had been drawn from independent experts and all Parliamentary votes had been made non-partisan from the very start.

Not sure , at this point , that would make any difference as these negotiations are over .

Minisorella
15-03-2019, 17:23
Not sure , at this point , that would make any difference as these negotiations are over .
Really? Certainly not prior to 'no deal' being vetoed they weren't, had we had the guts to stand our ground until the 28th... or had the negotiating team actually had any intention of letting us leave the EU. Mind you, they say our default position legally is still no deal, so the next couple of weeks will see lots more conflicting proposals, tabled amendments and parliamentary votes, including the no deal vote being ratified into law. Also, any subsequent deadline extension will prolong the Withdrawl Agreement negotiations. Unless Parliament votes for the current agreement before the 28th, this could run and run... we're not even at the end of the beginning.

korky
15-03-2019, 17:32
Tell Tusk et-all, to ram it where the sun don't shine. And to also tell this money pit organisation, to whistle for the 40/50 billion £ so called divorce deal.

Not a good idea to renege on any deals we have.That would be very damaging down the line.
If God help us we have to go striking new trade deals with the rest of the world if we Brexit, it makes us look dishonest and untrustworthy.

runnach
15-03-2019, 18:14
Not a good idea to renege on any deals we have.That would be very damaging down the line.
If God help us we have to go striking new trade deals with the rest of the world if we Brexit, it makes us look dishonest and untrustworthy.

That is the problem with this country, too, many invertebrates, makes me wonder how we ever managed to drag ourselves out our caves.

Oh, one other reason for UK voting out, as the EU is dishonest and untrustworthy, so nothing new there, then.

jacquigem
15-03-2019, 18:53
That is the problem with this country, too, many invertebrates, makes me wonder how we ever managed to drag ourselves out our caves.

Oh, one other reason for UK voting out, as the EU is dishonest and untrustworthy, so nothing new there, then.

Yes and some of us banged our heads on the cave roof and destroyed the few brain cells we were born with !

runnach
15-03-2019, 18:56
Yes and some of us banged our heads on the cave roof and destroyed the few brain cells we were born with !

You must have had a low in height cave.

jacquigem
15-03-2019, 19:12
Yeah but i dont pretend otherwise

GWAYGWAY
15-03-2019, 20:16
We are not going to be allowed to leave, THEY have deemed the EU too important for the forthcoming new world.
Has anybody noticed that the Gopvernment has / is sending the new aircraft carrier along with all of the new aircraft off to point a sharp stick at the chinese by sailing it up and down in the South China Sea.. nothing like an invitation to have one stuck up oneself is there. All hidden behind the news ??????? of Brexit.. Should not kick a sleeping dog especially if we depend on them for nearly everything nowadays.

korky
15-03-2019, 20:27
That is the problem with this country, too, many invertebrates, makes me wonder how we ever managed to drag ourselves out our caves.

Oh, one other reason for UK voting out, as the EU is dishonest and untrustworthy, so nothing new there, then.

I was making a serious point, but as usual you lower the debate to the level of the school yard.
I'm not going to waste any more of my day arguing with a stranger.

alcam
15-03-2019, 20:31
Really? Certainly not prior to 'no deal' being vetoed they weren't, had we had the guts to stand our ground until the 28th... or had the negotiating team actually had any intention of letting us leave the EU. Mind you, they say our default position legally is still no deal, so the next couple of weeks will see lots more conflicting proposals, tabled amendments and parliamentary votes, including the no deal vote being ratified into law. Also, any subsequent deadline extension will prolong the Withdrawl Agreement negotiations. Unless Parliament votes for the current agreement before the 28th, this could run and run... we're not even at the end of the beginning.

The deal , with or without cosmetic tweaks , has been agreed . No deal , politically , being off the table will not affect that

maingate
15-03-2019, 22:10
Not a good idea to renege on any deals we have.That would be very damaging down the line.
If God help us we have to go striking new trade deals with the rest of the world if we Brexit, it makes us look dishonest and untrustworthy.

I agree ... it is the responsibility of our Politicians to do that.

runnach
15-03-2019, 22:56
I was making a serious point, but as usual you lower the debate to the level of the school yard.
I'm not going to waste any more of my day arguing with a stranger.

My god, you saying the Eurocrats and the system they administer are all squeaky clean?

See you behind the bike shed :wave:

jagmanx
16-03-2019, 04:32
Are Brain dead, Stupid, Arrogant.
And thy need to get real....
At one time it appeared there were options
1 Go no deal
2 Renegotiate
3 No brexit
4 Accept the Main deal
5 Extend (ie delay)

No 1 has been almost certainly ruled out
No 2 has been tried and failed
No 3 is simply wrong (I do not approve of Brexit But I accept the peoples vote....Unlike most MPs)
No 4 This should happen ON TIME
No 5 as "GWAYGWAY" implies this is a mechanism to remain tied to EU
No 6 repeat referendum NO way

The deal; may not be a good deal
BUT is the only deal and the only course that should be pursued and VOTED to be Accept by MPs
They need to get real

Further delay will not gain anything and worse still create a further period of uncertainty


See my next post

jagmanx
16-03-2019, 04:39
This could be re-shot
With T May as the King and Boris, Gove and Rees-Mogg suggesting the "Troy Rabbit" and executing it similarly
The Castle should have Juncker Tusk and Barnier as the main taunters backed up up by the likes of Macron

YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=4&v=M9DCAFUerzs)

Of course the big difference is King Arthur want in
Whereas we want out

Kontiki
20-03-2019, 09:12
Surprised that this thread has continued, found this facebook post to sum up the current position.
As to the current pantomime May has allowed MP's voting to accept her deal twice & wants to try again, the only way for it to succeed is for MP's to change their minds, this is the one thing she won't trust the British public to do. Before the referendum result was out people who wanted out thinking they would lose were already asking for another vote. I wouldn't accept people who strongly wanted out to change their mind, for me if we can remain or stay as close to the EU I would take that as a win.
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54411849_2513388208950458_3194050118701547520_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=88bd2af60f5357a29159d0b5bddf52b1&oe=5D0A0144

phillybarbour
20-03-2019, 10:06
Letís get out, thatís my view.

mark61
20-03-2019, 10:06
Surprised that this thread has continued, found this facebook post to sum up the current position.
As to the current pantomime May has allowed MP's voting to accept her deal twice & wants to try again, the only way for it to succeed is for MP's to change their minds, this is the one thing she won't trust the British public to do. Before the referendum result was out people who wanted out thinking they would lose were already asking for another vote. I wouldn't accept people who strongly wanted out to change their mind, for me if we can remain or stay as close to the EU I would take that as a win.
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/54411849_2513388208950458_3194050118701547520_n.jp g?_nc_cat=1&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=88bd2af60f5357a29159d0b5bddf52b1&oe=5D0A0144


Typical. Remainers have no idea who to go out with. :p:raofl:

channa
20-03-2019, 10:14
It would be funny if not so true

Channa

jagmanx
21-03-2019, 07:47
Google Maps (https://goo.gl/maps/NWpCPtnzdWs)
Or Flushing as we call it for 29th or BIDET.
But it all seems cr@pp5d up !
Perhaps I will wait 'till May is out.
I can think of many who need a good CLOUT !

alwaysared
21-03-2019, 19:38
Of course we're better of in the EU, ask any Whitby fisherman (https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-fishermen/furious-with-europe-british-fishermen-lament-demise-of-trade-idUKBRE9261B920130307).

Regards,
Del


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