CLICK HERE TO REMOVE THESE ADVERTS


Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 39

Thread: Privatisation of the NHS

  1. #21
    mariesnowgoose's Avatar
    mariesnowgoose is offline Official OTW
    Name: Marie
    Spouse: She's gone bald!

    Member Number
    22098
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    11,951
    Motorhome
    Laika Ecovip 400i


    CLICK HERE TO REMOVE THESE ADVERTS
    Quote Originally Posted by Tbear View Post
    When I started training in 1976 they where talking about privatising the NHS. Not happened yet!

    The problem is that the NHS is a nationalised industry. Like all the old nationalised industries it is over staffed, inefficient and bogged down by bureaucracy. The private industries are much leaner and more efficient or bankrupt. There needs to be a marriage of the two which there always has been. Its just the dominance of one side or the other which varies government to government.

    By overstaffed I mean too much White Collar and not enough hands on.

    I think you will find that it is some of the doctors looking for private practise that drive a lot of the changes as much as government policy.

    Richard
    But mostly government policy. Vested interests.
    Life: unfinished threads in a never-ending tapestry
    There but for the grace of God go I

  2. #22

    Member Number
    71978
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    125
    Location
    Durham
    Motorhome
    Elddis 120
    Might I point out that despite govt and media propaganda to the contrary the NHS is one of the most efficiently ran healh services around. It spends way less per head than say the USA on admin. What is a problem is the increase in bureaucracy which is true. But may I point out. This increase in admin is not caused by the NHS. Its caused by govt acts of parliament, guidance and ways of working directly driven by the govt not the NHS. As an example, the health and social care bill has massively driven up paperwork for people. Every bit of spending must be accounted for to bill the local CCG's and put services up for bidding by private sector companies. This means increases in admin, admin workers, management etc etc. This bill was passed not by the NHS but by the govt. We now live in a deeply legalised society where everything must be accountable. Massive increases in risk avoidance (paperwork) driven by govt dictats, compensation culture, blame for this and that (driven by the govt).I could go on but these changes in society and accountability together with a blame culture and an increasingly micro managed culture driven by the govt need for accountability for every penny is not driven by the NHS. It just reacts to what is required to meet the needs of a changing society and a need for more accountability driven by....the Govt.
    mickwatsonphotography.com
    Likes maingate, mariesnowgoose, Debroos liked this post
    Thanks delicagirl thanked for this post

  3. #23

    Member Number
    11672
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,508
    Quote Originally Posted by Toffeecat View Post
    Might I point out that despite govt and media propaganda to the contrary the NHS is one of the most efficiently ran healh services around. It spends way less per head than say the USA on admin. What is a problem is the increase in bureaucracy which is true. But may I point out. This increase in admin is not caused by the NHS. Its caused by govt acts of parliament, guidance and ways of working directly driven by the govt not the NHS. As an example, the health and social care bill has massively driven up paperwork for people. Every bit of spending must be accounted for to bill the local CCG's and put services up for bidding by private sector companies. This means increases in admin, admin workers, management etc etc. This bill was passed not by the NHS but by the govt. We now live in a deeply legalised society where everything must be accountable. Massive increases in risk avoidance (paperwork) driven by govt dictats, compensation culture, blame for this and that (driven by the govt).I could go on but these changes in society and accountability together with a blame culture and an increasingly micro managed culture driven by the govt need for accountability for every penny is not driven by the NHS. It just reacts to what is required to meet the needs of a changing society and a need for more accountability driven by....the Govt.
    Its mainly driven by greedy people wanting compensation so the legal people take over to provide evidence to stop people getting compensation which costs a fortune and so do the legal people. Little to do with government, just greed in general.

    Richard

  4. #24

    Member Number
    7572
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    12,741
    Motorhome
    Niessmann Bischcoff Arto 690E
    Link takes you to a report (I can no longer find the full NHS enquiry report) of the mother of ex Edinburgh Lord Provost, what happened to his poor mother in 2005, was VERY similar to our dear mum 2012 at same hospital.

    My mother was killed by neglect at ERI - The Scotsman

    Mr Irons did not sue, although he did have grounds to, he wanted justice for his mum. Is he greedy??

    My sister and I, we took NHS Lothian (same organisation that cared for Ann eIrons) to task, which took three year, our case was upheld on nine counts. We did not sue, we demanded changes and an activity coordinator position to be created, which was done. We are not from a greedy family.

    We were driven by our need for justice for our deceased mum, we were driven to make the life of future patients (which could include any of us at my location) hopefully have a better patient experience, although lessons were not learned from 2005, up to the time of me taking my mum to her doom at midday 30th Sept 2012, which I find hard to live with myself to this date.

    NHS is a joke, too many hierarchy sitting in their ivory towers, protecting their pension pots. None of the individuals who were involved with our dear mums poor care, were sacked or charged with criminal offences.

    NHS = Job for life, even when patients die from their neglect.
    Last edited by runnach; 24-04-2019 at 20:07.
    Thanks Debroos, trixie88 thanked for this post

  5. #25

    Member Number
    7572
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    12,741
    Motorhome
    Niessmann Bischcoff Arto 690E
    Point I should have mentioned. People do not sue for no reason. A person goes in to have left leg amputated, leaves with right leg amputated, certainly has grounds to pursue, is this wrong?

    Problem is, mr and Mrs are looking at fighting the system, which is hard to do, costs a lot of money and, takes a long time.

    NHS know this and, work very hard to fight claims by the very people who fund this non producing quango.

    Hardly a level playing field, is it!
    The value of a man should be seen in what he gives and not in what he is able to receive.
    Likes delicagirl liked this post

  6. #26

    Member Number
    6231
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    11,059
    Motorhome
    CI Euro Riviera 100
    Quote Originally Posted by runnach View Post
    Point I should have mentioned. People do not sue for no reason. A person goes in to have left leg amputated, leaves with right leg amputated, certainly has grounds to pursue, is this wrong?

    Problem is, mr and Mrs are looking at fighting the system, which is hard to do, costs a lot of money and, takes a long time.

    NHS know this and, work very hard to fight claims by the very people who fund this non producing quango.

    Hardly a level playing field, is it!
    I agree with most of what you say Terry, I have no doubt the NHS have incidence of failing patients and families and would hope the incidents are isolated.

    Generally speaking, access to the legal system is one sided outside the parameters of just the NHS I can think of several areas.

    But remaining within the spirit of the original post and the privatisation of the NHS, we need ask the question would there be an overall benefit, and would it eliminate the general shortcomings, I am of the opinion it wouldn't and certainly within renal care from where it has been privatised the risk of adverse outcomes seems enhanced. That is my problem with it all.
    Channa
    Likes mariesnowgoose, Debroos liked this post
    Thanks mariesnowgoose thanked for this post

  7. #27

    Member Number
    11672
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    4,508
    For years many claims where just settled as it was cheaper to just give a payout than defend in court. I know a doctor who has been on Gardening Leave for over three years. Cleared of blame by police. Cleared of blame by his professional body. Still has the hospital with an axe over him. I doubt a private company would punish its staff so. It would be sorted on day and back to work Recruitment is difficult enough in many areas. Would you work a job where one "possible" error of judgement ruins your life and carrier. Where not matter how high you set the standard, half of patients will still be below the average so many of that half have you in the firing lines.

    Richard

  8. #28

    Member Number
    4310
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,536
    Location
    Nr. Glasgow
    Motorhome
    Bentley Ochre
    Quote Originally Posted by Tbear View Post
    For years many claims where just settled as it was cheaper to just give a payout than defend in court. I know a doctor who has been on Gardening Leave for over three years. Cleared of blame by police. Cleared of blame by his professional body. Still has the hospital with an axe over him. I doubt a private company would punish its staff so. It would be sorted on day and back to work Recruitment is difficult enough in many areas. Would you work a job where one "possible" error of judgement ruins your life and carrier. Where not matter how high you set the standard, half of patients will still be below the average so many of that half have you in the firing lines.

    Richard
    Yes, I did.
    2CV
    Likes mariesnowgoose, channa liked this post

  9. #29

    Member Number
    7572
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    12,741
    Motorhome
    Niessmann Bischcoff Arto 690E
    Quote Originally Posted by Tbear View Post
    For years many claims where just settled as it was cheaper to just give a payout than defend in court. I know a doctor who has been on Gardening Leave for over three years. Cleared of blame by police. Cleared of blame by his professional body. Still has the hospital with an axe over him. I doubt a private company would punish its staff so. It would be sorted on day and back to work Recruitment is difficult enough in many areas. Would you work a job where one "possible" error of judgement ruins your life and carrier. Where not matter how high you set the standard, half of patients will still be below the average so many of that half have you in the firing lines.

    Richard
    Patient dies 2005 due to neglect, big enquiry took place, finding NHS Lothian at fault. No heads rolled.

    2012 Our mother suffered same neglect, two enquiries took place, first one heading the complaint enquiry, was a good friend of senior staff nurse who failed to follow procedures, second enquiry took place, our complaint upheld on nine counts. No heads rolled.

    It was obvious NHS Lothian never learned from 2005 enquiry. Not one error, two.
    The value of a man should be seen in what he gives and not in what he is able to receive.

  10. #30
    mariesnowgoose's Avatar
    mariesnowgoose is offline Official OTW
    Name: Marie
    Spouse: She's gone bald!

    Member Number
    22098
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    11,951
    Motorhome
    Laika Ecovip 400i

    Money

    Please don't be fooled. This is all about money and who stands to gain from privatisation.

    The argument for privatisation has nothing to do with a failure in job performance, or even in poor administrative systems.

    Practitioners (doctors/surgeons/nurses etc.) can perform badly or make mistakes regardless of whether they are working in private or public practice.

    Maybe we have started to copy the US method of suing at every opportunity for every little thing, but one thing I do know: the number of people I have listened to over the last 30 odd years who have genuine tales of neglect, bad practice & dreadful mistakes by 'professionals' either affecting their own or relatives lives (sometimes leading to unnecessary death) in both hospitals and in care and nursing homes is very real.

    We also sued for our mother's neglect in a care home. This was after long discussions and advice from a well-respected charity (headed up by a Baroness) and I quote what they told us back in 2008: "We have found over the last 20 years that the only way that people are able to get any answers at all to their complaints or to get the message over that serious changes are required in the present systems of healthcare, or to gain any satisfaction for the wrongdoings they've experienced, is it to move to full litigation".

    The argument I have against privatisation is that it sets us on a path where, unless you are in a position to pay for your healthcare, you will not be eligible in future to be treated for your illnesses. The American model.

    Maybe it's deliberate. Maybe it's a good - and very tory! - idea to get rid of the poor and the sick and the disabled by neglecting them even more so we no longer have to care for them, and to do this by running the current NHS and other public health care services (not that there's any public care homes left, they're all private now) into the ground through deliberate lack of investment and by outsourcing to private firms who are even less accountable for their actions than public services. Hence the increased need for litigation when things go badly wrong.

    Tories and powerful industrialists didn't worry their heads when they were making their fortunes on the backs of slaves. They had little regard for human life back then and they are certainly demonstrating similar tendencies in the way current government is legislating - or, more to the point, avoiding legislation. There isn't an MP walking who can't currently afford to pay for private health care for themselves and their families. Privatising the NHS will affect them not a jot, so why should they care what happens to the rest of us ordinary souls?

    Funny how so much money to restore Notre Dame was found in literally a matter of hours. The money is there, or could be there, to reform and improve our NATIONAL Health Service for the benefit of ALL.

    Unfortunately the will (of the current government) is not there, and neither do we (the so-called electorate) have control of the money to make that improvement.

    We argue about Brexit, but the NHS is an even more vital & pressing issue, imho.

    Too. Many. Vested. Interests.
    Life: unfinished threads in a never-ending tapestry
    There but for the grace of God go I
    Likes GinaRon, yorkslass, Debroos liked this post

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •