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Thread: Diesel scrappage scheme could be here 'in months'

  1. #61

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    Diesel charge



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    I think Sadiq Kahn is doing the right thing. I think this will spread to other cities. I doubt any diesel motorhome owner who does not live within an affected city centre will be forced to change vehicle because of this, but if the opportunity arises in the future perhaps when a personal change is needed anyway it might be a good idea.
    Euro 6 diesels although perhaps expensive to maintain are apparently less polluting. Even they may well be excluded from centres of population in the end. A little electric car to get you to your MH garaged out of town??

  2. #62

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    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by bedonwheels View Post
    So does that mean that all of us that use solar panels to keep our batteries topped up for free, that have realised that once paid for we all benefit from the cleanest energy there is... are 'Greeniots'?

    A pal has a Solar Array' on his farm. I walked around it on Sunday. The gras was growing underneath the panels, birds were singing and one or two rabbits were to be seen. It was overcast and early. At the time it was silently producing 35 kw, pretty good for a modest installation. No sign of any real disruption, it didn't need a new road to be put in for access to build it. No fuel, no smoke no mess. A wind turbine 'breaks even' energy-wise in under a year. It'll last for at least 20 years again doing us all, and our kids and their kids a rather large favour. Fossil fuel power stations might help keep the lights on but they're far from good in every respect... And as for nuclear :-0 .........
    Perhaps you could try a little harder to understand.......................

    IF you have a solar panel on your Mh roof, AND a leisure battery charged by it you are clearly NOT a Greeniot. If, however you try and power UKPLC with a motley selection of solar panels and unreliable wind turbines, AND have no thought of storage (remember your leisure battery?) then you are a world class Greeniot.

    If you have a solar panel on your Mh roof and DO NOT have a leisure battery, then the above applies!!!

    Your "Pal"'s solar array is nothing of the sort, it is a SUBSIDY farm. Ask your Pal how interested he'd have been to install it were it not for the massively subsidised return he gets from the tiny and UKPLC irrelevant amount of power it generates and, then only in ideal and daylight conditions. You might also ask him that if the grass under the SUBSIDISED panels was growing so well, why he wasn't using this clearly arable land to grow FOOD?

    Not a single, even subsidised wind turbine gets even close to paying for itself in a year, even at the 1.9 x wholesale price of electricity it gets from its SUBSIDY, on the rare occasion it is windy enough to generate anything of any use to UKPLC! No wind turbine has yet lasted 20+ years as you say, and none ever will, the maximum life that can be expected is 10 to 15 years , but the subsidy is so high that 100% replacement cost within the 25 yr subsidy life is easily affordable.

    Perhaps a daily or weekly visit to G. B. National Grid status might let you see the real story of how UKPLC energy is organised.!

    Hard hat now on, Greeniots are a weird bunch.........................................!!!! !!!!
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  3. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by bedonwheels View Post
    I'm sure there will be losses but as the energy is free in the first place...... I heard this on a fascinating Radio 4 programme not that long ago that also mooted a simple idea that I had thought of, i.e. instead of turning off wind turbines use them at times of low demand to produce hydrogen from water.
    Had the renewable energies available to UKPLC been organised by ENGINEERS rather then the GREENIOT politicians and other assorted idiots, then I'd be the first to agree with you.

    ANY unreliable source of power is only of any use if some form of storage is organised BEFORE the countryside is littered by all means of, from a National Grid point of view, quite useless "generators"

    HAD this been done by engineers, then it is likely that ALL unreliable, but, perhaps, desirable, forms of "renewable" energy would have, from day 1, been connected to their own Grid. The variable power from this grid could then have been used to, as you say, produce Hydrogen from water by electrolysis, Hydrogen is reasonably easily stored and distributed, and can be either burned in a slightly modified conventional 4 stroke engine (only exhaust by product being water BTW) or run through fuel cells to produce electricity directly, to even power electric cars perhaps.

    But then WE had Greeniots...............................!!!!!

    Harder hat now on!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by alcam View Post
    You are worth watching . The Donald is still recruiting [in case you were wondering] .
    Hope you don't mind me asking , were you a total radge before you went to Norfolk or did it just come over you when you got there ?
    I DO mind you asking,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,however, this a life long , incurable, response to idiots ( sorry can't spell radge), moronic politicians ( they are widely distributed, but seem to have a fascination with Scotland) and Greeniots.

    Hope you don't mind my reply?
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  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanH View Post
    Perhaps you could try a little harder to understand.......................

    IF you have a solar panel on your Mh roof, AND a leisure battery charged by it you are clearly NOT a Greeniot. If, however you try and power UKPLC with a motley selection of solar panels and unreliable wind turbines, AND have no thought of storage (remember your leisure battery?) then you are a world class Greeniot.

    If you have a solar panel on your Mh roof and DO NOT have a leisure battery, then the above applies!!!

    Your "Pal"'s solar array is nothing of the sort, it is a SUBSIDY farm. Ask your Pal how interested he'd have been to install it were it not for the massively subsidised return he gets from the tiny and UKPLC irrelevant amount of power it generates and, then only in ideal and daylight conditions. You might also ask him that if the grass under the SUBSIDISED panels was growing so well, why he wasn't using this clearly arable land to grow FOOD?

    Not a single, even subsidised wind turbine gets even close to paying for itself in a year, even at the 1.9 x wholesale price of electricity it gets from its SUBSIDY, on the rare occasion it is windy enough to generate anything of any use to UKPLC! No wind turbine has yet lasted 20+ years as you say, and none ever will, the maximum life that can be expected is 10 to 15 years , but the subsidy is so high that 100% replacement cost within the 25 yr subsidy life is easily affordable.

    Perhaps a daily or weekly visit to G. B. National Grid status might let you see the real story of how UKPLC energy is organised.!

    Hard hat now on, Greeniots are a weird bunch.........................................!!!! !!!!
    Can you point to links which the Power Generators use to store their electricity from coal,gas nuclear etc? Green is the future but that is still some way off.

  6. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrks View Post
    Can you point to links which the Power Generators use to store their electricity from coal,gas nuclear etc? Green is the future but that is still some way off.
    As far as I know, NO power generators store electrical energy. Micro bits such as Dinorwic do not contribute enough to be considered as UKPLC type storage, bit like an AA battery in your motorhome!!!

    The Grid works by using non throttleable (sorry if that's not a word, but its understandable!) forms of energy to supply BASE LOAD, this load is the basic needs but without the plus or minuses created by time of day, variable load etc. This is done by Nuclear (which always runs at 100%, there being no fuel cost) and Coal which needs to be at high power for efficiency and pollution issues. The variable load is currently mostly CCGT, which is gas turbine engines which steam generators in the exhaust to then run a separate steam turbine, both the gas and steam run generators. This is much more controllable and able to cope,to some extent, with the vagaries of the extremely variable "renewables", especially wind which, legally, has to be used when available, absurdly, IMHO!!

    If you want a "green" future we need nuclear fission, which is still some way off, though proven and possible. For now, fusion will have to do and is far and away the cleanest form of power IF decommissioning is taken into account from day 1
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  7. #67

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    Green energy

    The next future fixed price for onshore wind is predicted to be lower than the price agreed for hinckley B nuclear. That may be why the government is not agreeing to hinckley C. Onshore and off shore wind costs have fallen by 35% recently and are expected to continue to fall. Solar is falling equally if not with greater rapidity. The more panels produced and new technologies cause this effect. Solar is cheaper than any other power production already in sunnier countries like portugal. Subsidies were necessary to kick start these technologies but they are reducing and will not be needed for ever. Meanwhile oil prices rise. I am an engineer!
    Mind you we are well off the subject of the thread.
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  8. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by IanH View Post
    As far as I know, NO power generators store electrical energy. Micro bits such as Dinorwic do not contribute enough to be considered as UKPLC type storage, bit like an AA battery in your motorhome!!!

    The Grid works by using non throttleable (sorry if that's not a word, but its understandable!) forms of energy to supply BASE LOAD, this load is the basic needs but without the plus or minuses created by time of day, variable load etc. This is done by Nuclear (which always runs at 100%, there being no fuel cost) and Coal which needs to be at high power for efficiency and pollution issues. The variable load is currently mostly CCGT, which is gas turbine engines which steam generators in the exhaust to then run a separate steam turbine, both the gas and steam run generators. This is much more controllable and able to cope,to some extent, with the vagaries of the extremely variable "renewables", especially wind which, legally, has to be used when available, absurdly, IMHO!!

    If you want a "green" future we need nuclear fission, which is still some way off, though proven and possible. For now, fusion will have to do and is far and away the cleanest form of power IF decommissioning is taken into account from day 1
    I know no power generators store electrical energy I was just wondering why you appear to be suggesting that 'green' power should be stored. - If, however you try and power UKPLC with a motley selection of solar panels and unreliable wind turbines, AND have no thought of storage (remember your leisure battery?) then you are a world class Greeniot.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrks View Post
    Can you point to links which the Power Generators use to store their electricity from coal,gas nuclear etc? Green is the future but that is still some way off.
    Grid energy storage - Wikipedia
    The less you want the more you live .
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  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by sparrks View Post
    I know no power generators store electrical energy I was just wondering why you appear to be suggesting that 'green' power should be stored. - If, however you try and power UKPLC with a motley selection of solar panels and unreliable wind turbines, AND have no thought of storage (remember your leisure battery?) then you are a world class Greeniot.
    Please explain, exactly where I said that Green energy should be stored??
    My whole objection to green energy is that it now cannot be, but had that been a consideration by the Greeniots on day 1, then, perhaps, it could have been. As it is wholly unreliable and virtually unpredictable, then the only practical use of it is when stored. However we now have a botched and impractical system which, with engineering input from the start could have been so much better
    Last edited by IanH; 17-02-2017 at 19:22.

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