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Thread: Help needed! Building landlord is trying to ban overnight parking on our pub carpark

  1. #1
    Loobylou72 Guest

    Help needed! Building landlord is trying to ban overnight parking on our pub carpark



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    Dear Members

    Please help. My husband and I are tenants of a beautiful pub in the Peak District. We welcome campers in vans to park for free overnight in our carpark and use our beautiful pub for food and drink - everyone's a winner! In fact I think several members on here have visited us.

    Our landlord's who own the building are incredibly difficult and one of their latest plans is to stop us having overnight parking of campervans on our carpark. We've had a solicitors letter quoting from the 'Caravan Sites and Control of Development Act 1960' saying that we are acting illegally by running a 'caravan site'. We are not running a caravan site, just trying to boost our business by allowing people to camp overnight in our carpark. There have never been any issues with noise or bad behaviour or anything. Everyone who has camped here has been fabulous, well behaved and left early the following morning.

    Does anyone have any knowledge of camping or parking legislation, or know anything that would be any help to us as I need to respond the their solicitors by 4pm on Tuesday or they are threatening breach of contract and issuing a section 146 notice, which is effectively an eviction notice or an injunction!!

    Any help would be most welcome, we have had several quotes for legal advice starting at 500 for an initial consultation and we just don't have the cash, so we are replying ourselves so if anyone could share their knowledge, there's a pint or two in it for you!

    Thanks

    Lou

  2. #2

    Member Number
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    Hi Lou,
    I take it that it has only been occasional use for motorhome parking and that you are not registered with any of the organisations such as the Caravan Club who are able to issue a site licence for up to 5 caravans without needing planning permission.
    If the above assumptions are right then your landlord is correct only if you have had more than one motorhome overnighting at the same time and on more than 28 nights in any one year. The Caravan Site Act requires all caravan sites to have a site licence.
    Schedule 1 of the Act lists the exemptions, basically you do not need a site licence if there is never more than one motorhome and that motorhomes do not overnight for more than 28 days in any calendar year. In planning terms it's known as the "28 day rule". Exceed these limits and your landlord is correct.
    You could write and confirm to the landlords solicitor that you have not exceeded these limits and will ensure that you bear them in mind when allowing customers to park overnight.
    Dave

  3. #3

    Member Number
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    Apply to the council under the order that allows CLs,, up to 5, and if you need a sponsoring body I am sure you might find one of the many authorised clubs to back you, Ask Phil he might know of one that could do it they do not need to be the CC or CCC to do it.
    I feel that somebody MUST have complained for them to even know that there has been a parked vehicle there. After all If a Driver has imbibed to much alcohol they must leave the vehicle there and if they are living in it then that is the answer.
    Last edited by GWAYGWAY; 02-04-2017 at 20:21.

  4. #4

    Member Number
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    I'm very sorry indeed to hear about the way in which you are being dealt with by your landlord. Please rest assured - you are not running a caravan site or anything of the kind!

    Section 146 relates to you as a tenant breaking a covenant of your lease - for example if it said in your lease that you must not allow people to park their camper vans in your car park overnight and you did allow this then your landlord would have a genuine grievance. I suspect however that there is nothing of this kind in your tenancy agreement

    I don't know whether your pub is in the Peak District National Park or not, however if it is I suspect that the National Park Authority may have been putting pressure on your landlord to act in the way s/he is. National Parks for some unknown reason have collectively decided to make life difficult for camper vanners. I live in Dartmoor National Park which has a byelaw prohibiting people from sleeping in vehicles overnight on "access land" within the Park.

    The other possibility is that your landlord has come under pressure from local campsite owners who (misguidedly in my view) think that if people weren't staying over in your car park they would be paying 25 a night to stay in a local camp site.

    Perhaps it would be possible for you to suggest to your landlord that it might well be in his or her interest for you to allow people to park overnight in your car park and that by doing so they are enhancing the profitability of your business and thus making it more likely the s/he will receive the rent on time!
    Last edited by Roger Haworth; 03-04-2017 at 09:28.

  5. #5

    Member Number
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    I would take legal advice but if the letter states motorhome this is the first mistake as there is no such thing,it in fact is a motorcaravan and any good barrister will pull this out of the hat along with the above posts,
    Also when you have shut up shop how do you know how has driven in and slept on the parking spaces,never mind ones you have taken keys of to stop them drink driving,good luck.
    Last edited by trevskoda; 02-04-2017 at 20:43.
    Only dirty people wash

  6. #6

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    Hi,

    My best advice would be to stop allowing motorhomes at the pub. Contact your landlord and say that no motorhomes will be staying there anymore.
    I know that this is not great for your business, but at least you will still have it.

    Admin

  7. #7

    Member Number
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    "Perhaps it would be possible for you to explain to your landlord that it is perfectly legal for you to allow people to park overnight in your car park and that by doing so they are enhancing the profitability of your business and thus making it more likely the s/he will receive the rent on time!"

    Sorry Roger that is not legally correct. With certain exceptions it is possible to use land for any purpose for up to 28 days in one calendar year without requiring planning permission. The Caravan Site Act further qualifies this by stipulating that it can only be one Caravan/motorhome at a time, exceed that limit or the number of occasions (28 days) and a site licence is required. It sounds harsh but that is the way the legislation works. Of course Lou can apply for exemption through one of the certified organisations and that could form part of the response to the solicitors, in the meantime Lou may be in breach of contract if that states that the tenant must comply with all relevant legislation.
    Dave
    Last edited by Val54; 02-04-2017 at 20:45.

  8. #8

    Member Number
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loobylou72 View Post
    We welcome campers in vans to park for free overnight in our carpark and use our beautiful pub for food and drink

    We welcome people to park for free overnight in our car park after using our pub for food and drink.

    Maybe better than mentioning Camping

  9. #9

    Member Number
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    Thank you Val54 for your extremely helpful comment regarding my post earlier in this thread. I have amended the post accordingly.
    Last edited by Roger Haworth; 03-04-2017 at 09:36.

  10. #10

    Member Number
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    Only a memory
    Do your landlords own other pubs?
    If so tell us who they are.
    We could all contact them and let them know that we will be boycotting every pub in their possession, because we refuse to patronise pubs that are motorhome unfriendly/ hostile.
    Get something going on other sites and Facebook,too.
    It's not where you live... It's HOW you live..

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